Also don't forget that if we enable the nether you can use the nether to travel. Because 1 block traveled in the nether is the same as 8 blocks in the overworld.

Also don't forget that the nether is laggy which makes it not an option for me and several others who may be in my position. It is also really dangerous to traverse like the overworld. If we limit everything to just nether teleportation, the nether hub will have to be made completely safe especially since ghasts can destroy portals. I think a nether hub would be awesome, I'd love to help build one, but it's so laggy for me I won't be able to use it. I, and others, would like to explore the nether, but we don't want exploring the nether to be an excuse for bouncing around the world. People will leave portals everywhere so they don't have to walk around the overworld. Then we will have cobble tunnels connecting the nether portals in the nether and we have another blox situation. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not see that happen again.

One thing we might be able to consider - nether portals only work in designated locations.

The same could be considered for End Portals. The End is a really beautiful place to build if you have the materials, and no EnderDragon, and possibly some flight. And the starry background is really cool.

Another thing we might be able to consider is the mobs. Would it be possible to allow wolves and such, but limit the amounts someone can tame?

And finally - this is entirely unrelated to 1.9. But, if you had someone willing to act as an administrator, would it be possible to run a Minecraft 1.5 server alongside the 1.9? There are lots of people who still use 1.5 (such as me); and I think that if you got the proper leadership a 1.5 server could flourish as well as a 1.9 server. (Just look at BossCraft. And before you ask, I have not the server space or bamdwidth needed to host my own server, or I'd do it in a heartbeat. Plus, not too many people would know about the thing, and nothing would happen :\ ).

I would agree to limit the amount of mobs one can tame- maybe ten or fifteen tamed mobs total would be good. I strongly dislike being killed by a ton of wolves.

Following abuse, Cemetech MC doesn't have wolves/ocelots available for now. Additionally, rule 7 prohibits having a ton of mobs in general. Given the wording of the rule, the user would have to limit the number of wolves they own themselves, else face administrative action.

---

As far as transportation is concerned, the map corners are quite difficult to access and grow increasingly far from the rail terminals. We could do paid warps to the map corners and leave the rails as a free-to-use transport system, arriving at a station with enough protection around it to prevent its destruction while still allowing players to integrate it into existing transportation solutions (e.g. paths, bridges).

Horses are pretty worthless on amplified maps, and walking is even harder; teleportation between players and homesets should remain permitted, and having a townspawn to go to encourages town founding.

As nice as it would be to have the nether available for transportation, it would both receive interference from overworld gold farms and allow for ridiculously overpowered gold farming within the nether, and thus defeat the purpose of the economy. Disabling pigmen in the nether would take out most of the risks of having the nether available.

Why paid?

/home would, ideally, still be available, it's such an ingrained command that taking it out would not be beneficial. As for the rest of your unquoted post, we still have yet to agree on a map size. If it's something like what we have now, teleporting may be a fact of life. If we make it smaller where towns are next door to each other and not in the far flung reaches, teleporting would obviously be disabled.



I beg to differ. /tpa is the biggest offender in my opinion. And Charles puts it rather eloquently. The original aspect of Minecraft was exploration and risk. Teleportation takes out the risk. /home takes out most of the risk as foraging away from home with an empty inventory isn't nearly as risky as coming back with your loot.

I remember saying that paths between towns would be protected wilderness. Much like the rail system. Someone builds a path between Town C and Town F, an admin can go and put protections around it so it can't be griefed and players can't be killed.

I find /t spawn a bit redundant as someones /home is usually in their town, right?



You make a great point. Beds were the original homeset and death was /home. I feel like this could also have benefits. If we remove /home and /homeset, players might actually be more inclined to "sleep" through the night, and encourage other users as well. Eliminating the risk of being in the wilderness at night - at least above ground! - and encourage regular homesets while exploring and death wouldn't set someone too far back.

If we disable /home I'd be more inclined to enable /t spawn.



If the nether becomes a thing, it will likely be limited to a community portal at spawn.



I'm shying away from discussing payments for actions until the currency is worked out and maybe even after a few weeks of playing. I don't want prices for actions to be inflated or deflated by the rate of income among the players. If we introduce costs for actions, I'd like them to be appropriate to what the users are earning.

But, to explain as to why they should be paid. It's more of a demand thing that is currently only an issue on 1.8. We have rails going down the middle of the map, think of it like the axis for a graph. If you build your town in the corner you're rather far away from the rails as if you had built closer to the axis. So for users who want to build in the corner, place portals to each corner and charge a fee for the convenience. But since 1.9 is not likely to have a defined path system like rails, paying for corner teleportation isn't an issue since a group of users can just construct a path from spawn to that corner.

---

Now, related to paths and touching a bit on money.

Is anyone interested in compensation for building paths? I expect the population of the server to build the paths from spawn to their town and between towns and I plan on protecting these paths from grief so users don't need to extend their towns. The thing is, if you build a long path you're committing a lot of resources and time and I feel like the builders should be compensated.

Let's not discuss what the compensation should be, I'm just entertaining this idea. I just feel like it's a great idea and would encourage building.

I think would be rather fair. It's really all too convenient in my opinion to flip back and forth between two locations indefinitely as easy as flipping pages of a book. I personally tend to gravitate toward vanilla, and restoring beds and potentially enderchests would solve the issues with things being 'risky' and time consuming if you die since you're able to both protect your most valued goods and still be able to get to them quickly with your bed as a home.

I think really in general, we shouldn't be so afraid of how risky or dangerous things are, since there are tactical ways to solve the problem. Not only do we encourage creativity, but we overall encourage thinking and exercising your mind. By this I mean, actually planning things, thinking critically, analyzing, etc when playing survival. If we truly and solely wanted to explore the creativity of users without any hindrances to that creative splash of art, then we'd be purely a creative-mode server. We are at least survival because we want at least *some* strategy. I feel that we wouldn't want the server to be really difficult to play on, but I don't think it should be so convenient and easy and a place where you don't have to use your mind to be able to get by-- a balance we need to achieve. I know there are a lot of people, especially the new user inflow, that tend to be less tactical when playing and can feel the effects of the server difficulty (in a broad sense, not just the easy/normal/hard/hardcore setting) more heavily. But of course, in order to make even the more newbier minecrafters happy, we'd need to take measures to make sure even very young people could play with, which is something we'd need to ask ourselves if we really want to put the bar down really low for this reason.
The real question here is, what bar are we trying to set on the Cemetech server?
Are we going to be a server that wants to lean toward helping the less experienced minecrafters, or will we try to lean toward introducing challenges to make it interesting for the more experienced, and perhaps more specifically those who are more connected with Cemetech? And of course, there is also a gradient within Cemetech of minecraft experience that we can see represented here even within just this topic discussion.
There is a balance we will have to agree on that will lean toward one or the other that I feel is important to discuss more as some of us want everything to be really easy and convenient, but others of us including myself who are looking forward to being challenged.
We have made some level of discussion previously regarding the per-player settings and related solutions, which could in theory cater to a while spectrum of users in certain minecraft components, but I believe this is only a part of the server difficulty discussion. We won't be able to resolve things like the ability to use certain teleportation/transport mechanisms on a per-user basis-- it would need to be universally established to all players. In this case, we will need to decide which direction we want to lean in as the Cemetech server.


I would disagree in a way. /home is, on the current map dynamic (PvE), more used for a location away from town, ideally some place you visit frequently or want to use as a convenient access point in addition to /town spawn, in order to accomplish a task more rapidly. i.e. I have a boatload of materials I would like to transport back home, so it'd be easy to set my home and then use /town spawn and /home to conveniently transport my goods in a very short time span.
Someone else's home wouldn't necessarily be in town because if they were part of the town, they'd likely have their home set somewhere else as well, because they likewise have access to /town spawn. So, /town spawn is not redundant and is actually tends to be coupled with /home in unison allowing for a convenient to-and-from transport system. If you remove /home, you basically break this to a degree. Beds would still have the /home, but the difference is that you'd just need to kill yourself when you transport the goods back and wish to return. However, you wouldn't be able to bring along anything with you when you kill yourself to return to the bed location, as opposed to having an actual /home command. In this system with the bed as the /homeset and /home, the link between /town spawn and that would be broken, and beds would serve as a place to respawn conveniently after death, which is what I feel is a better way to go as to not make it so convenient.



This is precisely what I am getting at. It's not like by ridding /home and /homeset, we'd be getting rid of the ability to minimize risks and also have a safe and quick point of return to your location. It simply forces you to be more tactical and actually think things through. On some servers that lean more toward vanilla, well, they collaborate a lot more about bed usage. They get around just fine and are good with the server. I don't feel people can honestly be too upset about doing something that standard vanilla minecraft uses.

Plus, as we develop paths more with time and even have people making rails-- which I know will happen, then transporting trans-map won't be as much of an issue as time progresses. I kinda like the idea of having it initially more difficult to get started and survive because it forces you to work hard and think strategically to get through the trials of the beginning, to establish more order as time progresses as an actual city or civilization would in the real world. Before we know it, we'll have all of these wonderful paths and railways and such that will allow us to more easily and quickly access both higher-traffic areas, and even the more remote parts of the possibly ever-growing map. As it will be inevitable iron farms and such will be developed, and people start gaining resources that do work for them, we'll see things like rails popping up rather quickly. I feel that there will be greater urge to work together and group up to establish certain orders and conveniences if we don't have such certain things to begin with. Especially if there was some incentive besides this... speaking of which...



I like this idea. Not that I would necessarily ask to be compensated since I like to do it as is, but I think this will further urge people to establish the order and convenience for themselves and others that some of us would like. Tying into the dangers of the wilderness and the ability to go trans-map and more conveniently get somewhere overall, I feel this would particularly help. People can choose whether or not they want to be compensated, but having the option will open people up more to doing it-- it will be a reason to help the community.

About grief-- if it's wilderness grief, we could turn creeper damage off. Since it's bannable to grief playerwise, it's generally mob grief we're more concerned about. And if our goal on this server will be to make it beautiful, I don't think having creeper and endermen damage is going to be generally beneficial and productive to this goal. This would make protection one less thing to worry about, and it would also allow the ability for other users with consent of the original creator, and the creator themselves to continue to develop the path if they so wish without having to get some permission from the admin to do anything with it.

You yourself say this is all a game. Why do people need to think critically about a game? If Minecraft was meant to be calculated and analyzed when playing, wouldn't that point be clearly shown like in Battlefield, COD, and Thief? I don't think people look at Minecraft the way they do those games because the way those other games are played is not the way Minecraft is meant to be played. It's a creative sandbox game. If it was meant to have strategy, one would think at least the graphics would be better.
If you want 90% of the teleportation gone, why don't you swear off it yourself? Your points for getting rid of most of the teleportation commands would probably be better accepted if you stopped using teleportation yourself and reported your findings. And by stop using teleportation, I mean for more than one day. Maybe try a week or something?
If it's just a game, why do you care so much about what teleportation we have and what economy we have anyway? If you want a challenge, then throw away all your stuff and stop using teleportation. It was always just an option. It was never a mandatory thing for players to use. You don't have to use teleportation. You don't have to have all your diamond gear and food and blocks. You can start anew whenever you want to, and now that PvP is gone, you can very easily do so without the risk of players killing you. You don't have to change an entire server to challenge yourself.
That's the nice thing about servers like Cemetech. You can play it the way you want to, to a certain extent. Minecraft in general is a game that people can play in any way they want to. Of course, you have to abide by the rules in a server, but those can be changed if you provide adequate proof of what you're talking about. If you want something to be different, then either go somewhere else or prove that things should be changed with more than just long diplomatic paragraphs and fancy calculations.
Having roads to get to everyone's towns would be amazing. I'm even gathering materials to start, but if you think the main use of teleportation is to get to other peoples towns so we don't have to walk and risk losing stuff, then you haven't watched real builders work. Builders like me use teleportation for our building advantage because we can't have creative. We find that teleportation is the easiest way for us to get up and down without having to build nerd poles all over our towns and builds. I know several people who haven't posted who would agree with this.
People like things that are easy to work. We do think about how to work in the server. We do think about how to tackle a challenge. We do exercise our minds. How do you think we come up with the builds we have made? We've found an easy way to do things. Why are you pushing to make things harder? If you really were looking at this from both sides (from the new player's view and an experienced player's view), maybe you could see where most of us are coming from.

I respectfully disagree. Minecraft is sandbox game which can be used as a medium for a variety of purposes. In fact, the original 1.7 PvP was structured in such a way that we'd not only encourage the creativity of users, but to also bring out strategy and get people to devise clever defenses and traps and to engage in tactical PvP. How Minecraft is played is not a set fact, it's your opinion.



The problem is everyone on the server teleports, and there's a higher tendency to follow with everyone else and not be an odd man out. If someone wants to show me something or whatever, I'm not gonna make them wait 20 minutes for me to walk to them when I have the ability to teleport. My preference of teleportation has nothing to do with our way of life on the current server, and I don't think I should be pinned up to the wall for having a preference like everyone else.
Please, no ad hominem attacks, we're here to discuss what each of us would like to see in the next update on the server.



You can challenge yourself in certain ways, but you have no control over universal server properties and dynamics, as I had pointed out. I further said in the better interest of everyone, not myself

I hope this is very clear that I have an opinion about wanting certain challenges even I cannot just hand myself, and that I am more than considerate of those who don't want to be challenged as much, if at all.
Things like the server dynamic are things the server will inevitably settle on one way or another, and as I have said, while I prefer that it be more challenging, but not necessarily crazy difficult, I believe we need to find a balance.

"It's just a game" -- which we play on. If we didn't care about what economy or teleportation we have, then don't look at me. A lot of the discussion, including what Comic wants to discuss, is revolving around this. I am participating in discussion of teleportation and economy and more because I play on the server too, and a lot of us do care about these things. If you don't, that's fine!


Then what's the point of this entire topic? This whole topic is all about things that could be kept or made different, ways to improve on things. I want some things to be different, as does other people. What do you mean "go somewhere else"?

No attack was intended. I was directly responding to your post. I also use "you" to refer to the general public.
I took psychology, I know people are sight-oriented. If you wanted to prove that minimal to no teleportation was a good thing, you would have to do it with more than just saying it's bad. That's just how people work. You were not being "pinned against the wall."
If you don't want people to wait 20 minutes for you to get to them, then why should we get rid of teleports?

What is your idea of "balance"? You want things to be more difficult. New people can't handle difficulties right when they start out. This will make people turn away, new and experienced players. I've had people tell me they will quit if teleportation was removed or taken down to almost nothing. I tried an economy server one time, and I found out later why I couldn't do as much as I wanted to. It was a hardcore economy server. You couldn't do basic Minecraft because of how it was set up. It was horrible. It feels like people want this to be a hardcore place. Everything is fine the way it is now. I don't understand why people are saying it isn't.

I'm on the server to explore the map, find cool things, see cool things, make friends, and build stuff. I'm not on there to have to defend myself from people and avoid traps all the time, if the server comes to that, I'll have to look elsewhere to join, or just delete the thing from my computer. If having pvp previously showed, it brings out a lot of bad blood between members.

We should leave things as they are, things are working, we have a LOT more active users now, and things are being built. THIS is fun.

Things we should be discussing for 1.9 (and heck, 1.8 even to some extent)

1) quests and contests
2) How cities could be laid out on the map so roads could be more easily built between cities
3) How we can setup trade systems between cities, which would increase people walking around (would also require for cities to be more open then they are now)

I'm sure I'll think of other things to add after giving more thought to this. Point stands though: teleporting isn't keeping people from exploring, they are keeping themselves from doing so. And that falls onto only one person that I know of that refuses to explore on their own.

I'm happy to see so much discussion about proposed changes and additions.

To me, a balance is two things: 1, where the gameplay is fun and challenging and 2, where no one is really upset or happy about the rules and features. Granted, some people will really like the rules and some people may hate it. Some people may find it more challenging than fun. The server can't be catered to everyone but it will be tweaked for the majority and somewhat for the minority.

Minecraft was originally a survival game. You had to survive the night without teleporting or cool gimmicks. While I'm not advocating for a pure vanilla server but I think it'd be cool to have some sort of challenge in lieu of PvP, and that challenge being survival. Survival PvE. I've already promised to protect walkways between towns and spawn from grief. These walk ways can be above ground, on the ground, below ground. Whatever. Wherever. Make it an aqueduct.

There will be safe modes of transportation. It may not be convenient but it'll be appropriate. If we get rid of Teleportation I advocate that we build on a smaller map so the distances aren't vast. Trading would be a non-issue as that can essentially be player shops. But it's not like a town is going to have a monopoly on, say, gold ore. It'll just be varying prices based on how much each player values their and work time while trying to have the better price.

Most importantly.

Let's NOT turn this into a finger pointing thread. The Charles & Chauron back-and-forth is borderline but we don't need to drag other people in to defend themselves. Your post is perfectly productive without the addition slash inclusion of that line.

I'm not trying to bring people into this, I haven't named names.

I'm saying out of all the active users we have, only 1 refuses to go out and explore the map.

Smaller maps means less area of exploration, = faster time before the map is boring.

In advance, I apologize for the wall of text...

I'm personally rather impartial to the entire issue (I'm in favor of tp, but have no real issue playing without it), but what the hey....

First off, I'm fairly convinced that the current setup works nicely and should not be changed. Overall, I view the teleportation commands as tools, and I use them as I would a pick, axe, or shovel.

- A majority of the players already go out and explore. Some for resources, some for the sake of exploration. A reasonable exception to this would be players focusing on building (either at the moment or in general).

- The amplified world type does not lend itself well to travel, except by paths specifically created for the purpose. Even with those, unless the entire map is crossed by them, tp still remains a valuable tool for players to return to an area (or their town) relatively quickly.

- Even in a non-amplified (standard or big biomes) world, tp still retains usefulness. A good example is mining, setting home, using town spawn to drop off materials, and using home to quickly return to mining. Another is if you're regularly assisting a fellow player build their town, or even just a certain structure.

- Convenience. Just because a player is able to walk for 10-20 minutes (or longer) to go from spawn to a town, or to a friend's town doesn't mean they should be forced to. To use a MC parallel, I can break dirt with either a shovel or my fist. Just because I can use my fist shouldn't mean I can't be allowed to use a shovel.

Now for the two main reasons why I'd oppose the removal of tp commands (which aren't really covered by proxy of the above pro arguments).

- Towns would cluster, either to be close to a friend's town, or to the spawn area. While this would allow for quick travel, it would also hamper town expansion. That's fine for a town with a handful of players, but anything more than that and the area can become rapidly overpopulated. Imagine Atlantia, Ex-Shoeblox, Cygnus, and Arcadia all right next to each other. Kinda hurts town growth a bit.

- Extended travel times. Exploring is another matter entirely - you're gonna use time whether or not you have tp commands. I'm talking going from one established point to another. Being able to tp to spawn/home/a friend's saves time, which can be better used to work on a project or gather resources.

Also a side note of it not being a part of vanilla survival - neither are towny or currency. Using the same argument there seems to be pretty weak, as I feel it is for the case against tp commands.

Guys, this is a must now. Dealing with everything on 1.8 myself is a lot of work. I've put in about 2 hours that I could be doing something else - and I worked 3a to 2p today. Granted, my time with MC has been productive and taken care of some issues but I don't want to be the only person anymore. In 1.9 I'm expressing that we need mods. I encourage non-players to apply first so we can have non-political bias once the server gets settled. Later on I'll open the mod positions to the routinely active players.

Mods will have an IRC channel or a private section of the forum where we can discuss actions against users and other things. I don't think mods will have the ability to actually enact bans and things, but I'll see how this goes and add responsibilities as the server progresses.

plz 2 b admin

Don't make me a Mod. Make nikky one.

Anyways, tifreak,I agree with you on all of those points, I really hope that we could have soe contests anounced a few days in advance, so people can ajust their scheduals acordingly

I would love to be a mod (seeing as how I am always on IRC but can't get on the game due to some.... er.... problems, but I love the server too much to stay away from it).

Would be willing to be a mod, hopefully I've proven myself fairly responsible in terms of moderatorship on the site, and in the way I deal with things in MC. Question I would have is, would being a mod allow one to play normally, and then switch modes to check on problems with the server? Or is it packaged together?