The law and morality are pretty clear on that. Pirating obviously copyrighted materials (like song MP3s and DVD rips) is illegal and morally wrong.

Their methods and tactics are questionable (both legally and morally), but their legal rights are still very valid.

You say it's morally wrong. Just like when the Bristish said the American Revolution was morally wrong, or when religious organizations say Disney is morally wrong. It's entirely a matter of perspective. Some call piracy morally wrong. I(and shitloads of others) call it fighting the power.

1.) piracy IS morally wrong. It is nothing less than stealing. Please, justify it...
2.) "fighting the power"? ... and yet you still want their content; to really "fight the power", don't get ANY paid content by any means...

No, society as a whole says that it is morally wrong. A few people also believe that stealing is OK and is "fighting the power", but they are obviously wrong and just want free stuff (like yourself)

There is no fighting the power here, just some people who want free stuff that isn't free.

Yeah, hold on, just because you (or anyone) like to pirate stuff doesn't mean you actually think it's right. If you do, you have a serious issue with your moral compass.
That doesn't mean you can't find a way to justify it, it just means that you can't find a way to justify it based on ethics or morality.
For example, if you (or anyone) says that you pirate because you have no income or money and you wouldn't buy it anyway, you aren't saying that you are doing the right thing, just the "sensible" thing.

Also, who are the Bristish?

When I go to see a movie, I look at a list of start times. These are the times the movie is supposed to start. However, the movie never starts at that time. Previews are shown first. I paid to see a movie at a specific time, and the movie industry does not honor that part of the agreement. Are they not stealing time from me? There are plenty of other far better examples for justifying the complicated ethics of piracy. But ethics in itself is a matter of perspective. It isn't definitive, like logic or math. It's based purely on opinion. Think of Robin Hood. He stole, yes? And yet he's a hero, because he was stealing from the rich. From people who had a lot, and were hardly losing anything. Piracy is a similar matter. The people who lose money(and I use the term "lose" very loosely here) are the multi-million-dollar corporations and publishers, not the artists. In fact, publishers often gain money from piracy, as people who pirate usually weren't going to buy the product in question until they tried it, and ofter they'd never even heard of it. If a publisher releases something worth paying for, people buy it. Just like the Orange Box. I initially pirated it, to see how it'd run on my computer, and how great the games were. I now own a copy. Don't assume that because you think something is right or wrong, that is is right or wrong, because right and wrong are just figments of our imagination and opinion.

PREFIX: WHEN I USE MORALS I MEAN THOSE AS DEFINED BY SOCIETY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AS A WHOLE.
This is also the definition used by law, actually, for things like indecent exposure, etc....



False, the movie THEATER did not "honor that part of the agreement". In actuality, no agreement is ever established and the theater is under no obligation to start the movie itself at that time (often times I'm glad they don't since people are still entering the theater when the movie is supposed to start).

Also, the reason there are previews and commercials are because the cost of the ticket alone is not enough for the theater to turn a profit (it isn't even enough for the theater to stay in business).



No, they aren't. Also, you can't steal time.



No there aren't, there aren't any. Not a single one. There are *excuses* for certain cases (such as region locked media), but none are truly morally justifiable.



True, but it is a matter of *society's* perspective, not that of an individual.



False.



*POPULAR* opinion.



to give to the poor and to fight against injustice and tyranny. Also, Robin Hood's story is far more complex than that, and is in *NO* way comparable to piracy, not even remotely. Robin hood fought for basic human rights - food, shelter, etc... Piracy is all about entertainment, which is most certainly NOT needed for survival (it isn't even needed for comfortable living)

But lets assume for a moment that you were actually correct about Robin Hood. Society nowadays would label him a communist and ridicule him, not honor him as a hero.



False. Who pays the artists? The multi-million dollar corporations and publishers. The less money they get, the less artists get, and the less there is to spend on risky investments (new bands, new directors, things that aren't sequels, etc...)

Of course, you are also introducing the constraint that people only pirate from multi-million dollar corporations. This is horribly inaccurate at best. You say yourself you pirated the orange box. Valve is a *single* company (not a corporation), and they certainly aren't as big as the RIAA or MPAA. There are also many, many torrents out there for computer programs from small studios, as well as those from large ones. Piracy is in no way limited only to the fat cats of Hollywood.



This is questionable and is in no way defined. It is also merely an excuse to get free stuff illegally.



They have things for that explicit purpose. They are called demos. Your excuse is still not justifiable (either logically or morally)



False. Right and wrong are defined by popular opinion, again. It is NOT an individual opinion.

Absolutely. Look at any small label band. Big labels can put music for sale places where people can easily legally purchase it. For a small label cd, if you don't have the ability to buy it at a show, you either pirate it or live without it. This may, again, make it justifiable, but it's still morally wrong.

I've made my point. Dismiss it if you want to. It's inconsequential. I'm obviously not going to change your minds, and you're obviously not going to change mine. I see no point in continuing this part of the discussion, so lets just get back to talking about how youtube and google are evil.

We're not trying to change your mind. We're just telling you how stupid your comments are.

Noted. Now lets move on.

So, I had a dream last night where I pirated some stuff, then the next day I got caught. As a punishment, then took my computer but left the harddrive there. But instead of leaving it whole, they had it cut up in pieces (like Kerm's "Disk Partitioning" picture [ http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=80670&sid=9060ef098c2bca0b567fce5317d3f2f1#80670 ]).

This forum is making me crazy...

hahaha, that's a pretty odd dream, though if you think *that's* making you crazy, you obviously haven't spent enough time reading sci-fi + fantasy/playing sci-fi + fantasy videogames.

Haha, I find it amusing that two separate topics from Cemetech got incorporated into your dream.

People don't get caught pirating anymore anyway, I have more than two full harddrives of copyrighted works of all kinds(I'm a perv and I just got myself banned for 4 days) to prove that. Although maybe that's because I live near philly, and the police are too busy sitting on their collective asses to even stop the drug dealing that goes on, much less pirating and other equally heinous offenses like J-walking. Anyway, we should get back to talking about how youtube is facist for removing videos they don't like.

People are still being sued for piracy, it is happening more, not less, than it used to.

Also, the police don't enforce copyright violations. It is the responsibility of the copyright owner to sue you, not for the police. You could walk up to a cop and say you have a hard drive full of pirated materials and he won't do anything about it. So your location is irrelevant.