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KermMartian
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55759
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
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 Posted: 05 May 2012 01:52:01 pm Post subject: |
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It has come to my attention that although he obstinately refuses to keep us abreast of any developments (  ) that Simon has released a new CHM file with more syscalls. May I recommend that we all work together to get the new syscalls (probably with better names, and WikiPrizm'd documentation) in PrizmSDK?
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Ashbad
... I think redheaded girls are kind of cool
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 2418
Location: Stomp Stomp Stomp, The Idiot Convention
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 02:17:10 pm Post subject: |
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| KermMartian wrote: | | It has come to my attention that although he obstinately refuses to keep us abreast of any developments ( ) that Simon has released a new CHM file with more syscalls. May I recommend that we all work together to get the new syscalls (probably with better names, and WikiPrizm'd documentation) in PrizmSDK? |
I think that's a great idea (and it simply needs to be done anyways), I can spend some time once school expectations let up later this month to help with the process of transferring and documenting them on WikiPrizm.
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KermMartian
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55759
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 02:17:57 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome, I hope to help with that process, as well as continuing to document existing syscalls and useful routines on WikiPrizm. I also need to post news officially announcing the wiki, which I haven't done.
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TheStorm
NOU!
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 2375
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 05:01:50 pm Post subject: |
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Getting them added to libfxcg is rather simple, I can build a new static lib easily. Just get me numbers and function names, or get them to tari, and we'll get them on git hub and I'll build and upload a new libfxcg.a. Then you'll just have to add them to your header files and be good to go.
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"Always code as if the person who will maintain your code is a maniac serial killer that knows where you live" -Unknown
"If you've done something right no one will know that you've done anything at all" -Futurama
"Have a nice day, or not, the choice is yours." Tom Steiner
<Michael_V> or create a Borg collective and call it The 83+
<Michael_V> Lower your slide cases and prepare to be silent linked. Memory clears are futile. |
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gbl08ma
Power User
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Posts: 475
Location: Portugal
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TheStorm
NOU!
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 2375
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 05:10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Oh good to hear, if you have a github account you can always fork the project and send up pull requests with the any updates and changes you would like made.
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"Always code as if the person who will maintain your code is a maniac serial killer that knows where you live" -Unknown
"If you've done something right no one will know that you've done anything at all" -Futurama
"Have a nice day, or not, the choice is yours." Tom Steiner
<Michael_V> or create a Borg collective and call it The 83+
<Michael_V> Lower your slide cases and prepare to be silent linked. Memory clears are futile. |
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Tari
Systems Integrator
Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 2112
Location: Always-winter, Michigan
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 05:27:15 pm Post subject: |
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Recall also that anything on github gets built nightly. 
It's pretty easy to build a toolchain if you're running on Arch, since I've got PKGBUILDs for binutils and gcc in the AUR. I'm pretty sure libfxcg only requires binutils to build, however.
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Ask questions the smart way · タリ |
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cfxm
Newbie
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 34
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 05:10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It has come to my attention that although he obstinately refuses to keep us abreast of any developments ( Wink ) that Simon has released a new CHM file with more syscalls. |
He didn't told me there is an updated version and I have been talking with him on an almost daily basis.
Simon: Come on, how are you treating me/us?  |
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KermMartian
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55759
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 11:56:47 am Post subject: |
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If and when you talk to him, could you remind him that we love writing Prizm programs and are currently more or less the leaders in terms of activity, so since he seems to have quite a few insights to contribute, we would love to have him be more active here? It's quite frustrating that I always hear about his progress second-hand.
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cfxm
Newbie
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 34
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 05:13:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If and when you talk to him, could you remind him that we love writing Prizm programs and are currently more or less the leaders in terms of activity, so since he seems to have quite a few insights to contribute, we would love to have him be more active here? It's quite frustrating that I always hear about his progress second-hand. |
Well, he knows what Cemetech does but... somehow... doesn't bother... because he thinks he can do this stuff ten times better... and obviously he does. He's a technical guy and doesn't seem to need a big community. That's my opinion knowing him for a few years.
Last edited by cfxm on 07 May 2012 07:52:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ashbad
... I think redheaded girls are kind of cool
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 2418
Location: Stomp Stomp Stomp, The Idiot Convention
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 05:20:38 pm Post subject: |
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| cfxm wrote: | | because he thinks he can do this stuff ten times better... and obviously he does. |
Then what makes the other sites he does share his insight with worth his time if he can do things "ten times better" than everyone? Just because he's been at the front lines of the Prizm hacking scene for a long time, doesn't mean he can do anything better. Many of us over here at Cemetech are dying for some information to go on; perhaps if we had some up to date info he's gotten, we could start being "10 times better" as well. We've had multiple occurrences where we'd be trying to figure something out, and realize Simon had already figured it out a long time ago, halfway into hacking. I think I speak for us all when I say that it gets on our peeves when we have to work with outdated information, figure it out ourselves, and then see that it's been secretly documented somewhere else.
What's the point of hacking and documenting something if you're not even going to share your findings with the people who need it?
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helder7
Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2011
Posts: 136
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 05:54:19 pm Post subject: |
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you look like children... simonlo shared documentation with the community, and you only criticizing...
I think he deserves at least one thank 
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SiO2 + CaCO3 ----------> CaSiO3 + CO2 |
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cfxm
Newbie
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 34
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 06:01:53 pm Post subject: |
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Before he released the syscall documentation for the fx-9860G along with the Prizm stuff, it hasn't been publicly available for about five years (2006..2011). Only two persons had access to it: He and Andreas (who wrote the xfer9860 program). You had to ask for a specific issue with your add-in, then you got help. And there was an actual reason behind this: Add-ins run in privileged mode allowing you to actually destroy the device when doing bad things. This was the reason it was kept private and to ensure that only documented and well tested syscalls would be shared. Another reason was that there were no more active hackers in the Casio scene (except kucalc, but there has been some kind of personal dispute).
He will continue releasing stuff "when it's done/ready", but you can always ask for a specific issue and Simon may look it up. It's his policy and I guess he's not going to change it any time soon.
Last edited by cfxm on 07 May 2012 12:48:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DJ_O
Retired TI-83+ coder
Joined: 18 Mar 2005
Posts: 1487
Location: Quebec (Canada)
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 06:40:54 pm Post subject: |
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Although keeping most info private isn't very common in the calc community (the only other people doing so being Ndless developers for the most part), I noticed that some people tend to prefer to work underground, as in interact as less as possible on forums or chatrooms. Even though SimonLothar's favorite forum has always been Casio-Kingdom/Scene, he have only made 211 posts in over 4 years there. There are even people who will only release their stuff when it's done in site archives such as ticalc.org and never post a single message on any forum anywhere or will only do so on their personal blog.
I guess it's up to each people really, although it's good to nag them in case.
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Retired 83+ coder, Omnimaga/TIMGUL founder. Now doing power metal music (formerly did electronica)
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helder7
Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2011
Posts: 136
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 06:53:56 pm Post subject: |
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fxreverse is avaliable since 2008-06-05 22:55
http://en.sourceforge.jp/projects/sfnet_fxsdk/releases/
latest changes in this documentation is in 03.05.2012 (the release day)...
like cfxm say:
He will continue releasing stuff "when it's done/ready",
he likes to do the job well done, without pressure
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SiO2 + CaCO3 ----------> CaSiO3 + CO2 |
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cfxm
Newbie
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 34
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 07:49:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | fxreverse is avaliable since 2008-06-05 22:55 |
Yeah, I know. But this included let's say 10% of the syscalls known at that time. And the 03.05.2012 release actually dates back to February 2010 when Andreas left the Casio scene and this hasn't been released until now. But fortunately, Simon changed his attitude in late 2010 and regularly releases stuff on a well-you-know-what-you-are-doing basis.  |
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TheStorm
NOU!
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 2375
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 09:04:33 am Post subject: |
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| Tari wrote: | Recall also that anything on github gets built nightly.
It's pretty easy to build a toolchain if you're running on Arch, since I've got PKGBUILDs for binutils and gcc in the AUR. I'm pretty sure libfxcg only requires binutils to build, however. |
A note on the gcc package, I think it should really be called [target]-gcc-base rather than [target]-gcc but I doubt it really matters. Also thanks for doing that, it means it'll be much easier for me to get things setup on my G5 and P4 Server.
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"Always code as if the person who will maintain your code is a maniac serial killer that knows where you live" -Unknown
"If you've done something right no one will know that you've done anything at all" -Futurama
"Have a nice day, or not, the choice is yours." Tom Steiner
<Michael_V> or create a Borg collective and call it The 83+
<Michael_V> Lower your slide cases and prepare to be silent linked. Memory clears are futile. |
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KermMartian
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55759
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 10:20:50 am Post subject: |
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| Ashbad wrote: | | cfxm wrote: | | because he thinks he can do this stuff ten times better... and obviously he does. |
Then what makes the other sites he does share his insight with worth his time if he can do things "ten times better" than everyone? Just because he's been at the front lines of the Prizm hacking scene for a long time, doesn't mean he can do anything better. |
Yeah, that rankles me too. I think he has a head start on it, and thus he's able to pull out the progress faster than us. I'm sure that if some of us started at the same point he's at, and had the same motivation and tools as him, we could find and document things like syscalls as fast or faster. I certainly salute his hacking skills, but with all due humility, we are some pretty savvy hackers ourselves. | Quote: | | Many of us over here at Cemetech are dying for some information to go on; perhaps if we had some up to date info he's gotten, we could start being "10 times better" as well. We've had multiple occurrences where we'd be trying to figure something out, and realize Simon had already figured it out a long time ago, halfway into hacking. I think I speak for us all when I say that it gets on our peeves when we have to work with outdated information, figure it out ourselves, and then see that it's been secretly documented somewhere else. |
I doubt his intention is actually keeping the information secret (I seriously doubt he intends any malice, as he seems like a decent guy), but the motto in the calculator community has always been free and open sharing.
| Quote: | | What's the point of hacking and documenting something if you're not even going to share your findings with the people who need it? |
We get no monetary compensation for our work, so there is very little point not to share everything you find out as openly as possible. I know that I have been personally criticized for the few of my projects that I haven't completely open-sourced, though whenever I've found out interesting things about the TI or Prizm hardware and software, I've taken pains to disseminate my discoveries as widely as possible. I know that Ashbad, AHelper, Gbl08ma, Pierrot, and many other Prizm hackers here at Cemetech have done the same.
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AHelper
LONG LIVE COMICTECH
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 1659
Location: Aufhelperstan, Utopian Republic
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 10:28:48 am Post subject: |
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| KermMartian wrote: | | I know that I have been personally criticized for the few of my projects that I haven't completely open-sourced, though whenever I've found out interesting things about the TI or Prizm hardware and software, I've taken pains to disseminate my discoveries as widely as possible. I know that Ashbad, AHelper, Gbl08ma, Pierrot, and many other Prizm hackers here at Cemetech have done the same. |
I still have unreleased source for a few projects (or unreleased altogether). I do agree that new information that is stable enough to release should be released as proper documentation. I would go either way with keeping in-dev. private until it is understood, but I wouldn't refuse giving it to anyone. For ex, I still haven't released the source of the 3D engine modifications as they are messy and is hard to work with, but I did post information about the engine.
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<BrandonW> "You don't even want to know what TI Connect does when it's just detecting your calculator...It ACTUALLY ERASES THE SWAP SECTOR on every communication attempt...EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT...Yes, TI Connect will kill your calculator..What do I have to do to get your attention?!....Such a bloated protocol." |
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cfxm
Newbie
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 34
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| Posted: 07 May 2012 11:30:58 am Post subject: |
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I no longer want to speak for Simon but for myself:
I like open source and I won't make anything closed source, but I still prefer closed development with a few people you know well. As too many cooks spoil the broth. And if you don't like it, you can always fork the project after its release. |
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