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Super Speler
Super Awesome Dude
Calc Guru
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 1391
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 Posted: 05 Dec 2005 08:50:27 pm Post subject: |
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I was sitting down one day really bored and came up with the following:
First of all pick any number between 0 and 99. I'll assume you picked 42 (after all who wouldn't pick the answer to life the universe and everything).
This random number is the same as picking a 4 and a 2 and lining them up to make: 42.
Now pick a number between 0 and 999. I'll assume you pick 356.
This random number is the same as picking a 3 a 5 and a 6 and lining them up to make: 356.
Now the interesting part:
Pick a number between 0 and infinity.
Isn't this the same as picking infinite digits and lining them up.
If you keep picking infinite times you have to pick a non-zero number for at least one of the digits which makes it equal to infinity.
Therefore every random number between 0 and infinity is infinity which is undefined.
Do not say that you picked 542. For this is not a random number. This is a number picked by your finite and inferior brain. |
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Raster
Active Member
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 529
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| Posted: 05 Dec 2005 09:36:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Very interesting... Dont have much to say. Just wanted to post for your assurance that people are reading your post :biggrin: . |
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DarkerLine
ceci n'est pas une |
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 8328
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| Posted: 05 Dec 2005 09:50:19 pm Post subject: |
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When you line up an infinite amount of numbers, you actually get a higher-order infinity than the infinity of the natural numbers. You actually get too many numbers for all of them to be integers because there's not enough integers.
Therefore, you have to generalize and say that you're picking real numbers. After that, you get a decimal point, which throws off the "any number is infinite" logic because lots of numbers (for example, Pi, or 1/3, or 1.234567891011...) have an infinite number of nonzero digits, yet aren't infinite.
Last edited by Guest on 05 Dec 2005 09:53:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Liazon
title goes here
Bandwidth Hog
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2007
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| Posted: 05 Dec 2005 09:50:23 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds almost exactly like in H2G2 when it says that the population of the universe is nothing.
(finite number of worlds with people)/(infinite space in universe)=0 |
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DarkerLine
ceci n'est pas une |
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 8328
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| Posted: 05 Dec 2005 10:06:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Another problem with picking an infinite number of digits and concatenating them is that there are an infinite amount of ways to pick the same number, just add another 0 at the front. |
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JoeImp
Enlightened
Active Member
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 747
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| Posted: 06 Dec 2005 04:01:11 am Post subject: |
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Quote: Now pick a number between 0 and 999
I pick 46.
Quote: This random number is the same as picking a 3 a 5 and a 6 and lining them up to make: 356.
So then do I have
4+6 v 4+6+0 v 4+6+x?
4+6 = 46
4+6+0 = 460
4+6+x = 46x
You'd think I would have 46, which is what I chose.
Quote: Isn't this the same as picking infinite digits and lining them up.
That's asking the same question as above, if I have to tack on extra digits which violates the orignal input.
[edit]
I've edited this five times now. From lots of equations to this. It's 3:42am and I didn't sleep last night. It's the best I can do 
Last edited by Guest on 06 Dec 2005 04:07:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Brazucs
I have no idea what my avatar is.
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: 06 Dec 2005 01:39:31 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: I've edited this five times now. And deleted it once  lol, jk
I think you have to tack on zeros at the beginning, like 0+4+6 |
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DigiTan
Unregistered HyperCam 2
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 4468
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| Posted: 06 Dec 2005 04:03:34 pm Post subject: |
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Super Speler wrote: This random number is the same as picking a 3 a 5 and a 6 and lining them up to make: 356.
Another way to look at that is to say: 3x10^2 + 5x10^1 + 6x10^0. That also works for fractions and binary.
Last edited by Guest on 06 Dec 2005 04:04:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Liazon
title goes here
Bandwidth Hog
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2007
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| Posted: 06 Dec 2005 04:37:29 pm Post subject: |
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On the topic of random numbers, how does a calc generate them? I emailed either sigma or necro about it before I joined the forums and I didn't understand the code in it's entirety.
Where do you get the seed and what does the calc do to the seed to make a random number? In fact, what is a seed?
@Super Speler: are you saying random numbers are equal to nothing, meaning there is no such thing as a random number? So there is no such thing as chance in life?  the horror! And the calc's randint() is just some cheap parlor trick?!?! |
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CDI
Advanced Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 267
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| Posted: 06 Dec 2005 04:52:36 pm Post subject: |
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| all computers have timers, the seed id a number the calc puts into a VERY complex equation that uses the timer and is between the L and R bounds |
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Liazon
title goes here
Bandwidth Hog
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2007
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| Posted: 06 Dec 2005 04:53:46 pm Post subject: |
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| So how do make a random number routine in ASM nostub? |
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DarkerLine
ceci n'est pas une |
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 8328
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| Posted: 06 Dec 2005 05:03:39 pm Post subject: |
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CDI wrote: all computers have timers, the seed id a number the calc puts into a VERY complex equation that uses the timer and is between the L and R bounds
[post="63491"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post] The calculator's random number generator does NOT, at any point, use a timer. |
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Super Speler
Super Awesome Dude
Calc Guru
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 1391
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| Posted: 06 Dec 2005 11:03:57 pm Post subject: |
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When a calculator chooses a random number it cannot do anything higher than 99.999999999x10^99.
To the third reply:
I'm also asuming that your picking a whole number. |
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chipmaster
Active Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 601
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| Posted: 06 Dec 2005 11:54:12 pm Post subject: |
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calcul831415 wrote: So how do make a random number routine in ASM nostub?
[post="63492"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
Well that depends on what you mean. First you need seeds. I would use the time it takes the user to press different keypresses at different menus. Now if you want to make your own routine you would somehow do some intense calculations on the two to generate a random number between 0 and 1 like the rand function. Or if you want to save space (and be lazy) you can use b_call(_random) which generates a psuedorandom number based on the seeds in seed1 and seed2 (both are floating point reals). If you want a random intercept between hl and de (assuming de is bigger) you could do:
Code:
push hl
push de
b_call(_random)
pop hl
b_call(_setxxxxop2)
b_call(_fpmult)
pop hl
b_call(_setxxxxop2)
b_call(_fpadd)
b_call(_Int)
;op1 now holds a random integer between hl and de
;if you want to use it in a register:
b_call(_convop1)
;now de holds the random integer
Edit: of course if you wanted the random number to be a register anyways you can get rid of the b_call(_Int) as convop1 will do it for you anyways. 
Last edited by Guest on 06 Dec 2005 11:55:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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elfprince13
Retired
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 3500
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| Posted: 07 Dec 2005 12:37:09 am Post subject: |
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calcul831415 wrote: It sounds almost exactly like in H2G2 when it says that the population of the universe is nothing.
(finite number of worlds with people)/(infinite space in universe)=0
[post="63441"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
After explaining that to a kid on my soccer team I kicked hard a couple of times since "I was just a figment of his imagination" |
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Math and Science => Technology & Calculator Open Topic
