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Job the GameQuitter
Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2003
Posts: 102
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 Posted: 05 Jan 2004 08:50:59 am Post subject: |
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Loosely translated lines from a Dutch cabaretier:
[quote name='"Theo Maassen"']I consider all that money spent on the search for extra-terrestial life a waste! I mean, it's so simple. You have two options: there is extra terrestial life or there isn't. If there isn't it's a big waste of money, and if there is extra-terrestial life, then again you have two options: they're more intelligent than we are, or they're dumber than we are. If they're dumber than us than I'm not the least bit interested in them, and if they're more intelligent than we are they'll find us long before we find them![/quote]  |
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Arcane Wizard
`semi-hippie`
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 8993
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| Posted: 05 Jan 2004 10:11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Hehe, but you're not Dutch, are you? |
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JesusFreak
JesusFreak
Active Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 537
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| Posted: 05 Jan 2004 05:44:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Could they be just as smart as us? |
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JesusFreak
JesusFreak
Active Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 537
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| Posted: 05 Jan 2004 06:09:24 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: It did not go in circles, the problem is that you didn't understand what I was saying but still had to ramble about it.
What I said was that the probabilty of an intelligent creature to evolve is 100%, because all creatures evolve. If all creatures evolve (which is true) all subgroups of creatures (like intelligent ones) have to evolve too, hence it can't be lower than 100% likely that intelligent creatures can evolve.
The next thing I said that you need an intelligent creature in the first place otherwise it can't evolve, which is increadibly logical because for an intelligent creature to evolve you need that creature to exists in the first place. How can something that does not exists in any way evolve? I didn't say all creatures have to be intelligent to evolve, that's just what you made of it because you didn't fully understand what I said.
But from what you believe, we all came from the same thing, over a period of time, so then using that logic, and the statement that we a intelligent race, that must mean the first step that we Evolved from must have been intelligent, and so the second step would be intelligent, and so on untill we "Evolved".
Also if it is Quote: 100% likely then everything would be intelligent, b/c it would take at leats .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000001 (with a lot more zeros, going on forever before the 1)% for there to be unintelligent.
Quote: Micro evolution is actually the evolution within a specie not changing it enough to create a new specie, like you have dogs that have long legs and dogs that have short legs.
Micro is one animal from one species, not the general species. ( i have talked with a lot of teachers, profesors, etc. and this is what it is)
Quote: Macro evolution is evolution where one specie evolves into a completely new one or a compltely new specie evolves from a specie (the original specie splitting up in a new one and the original one).
But wouldn't the original species die out, and the new one be better than the last, for if it was worse than the original, then it would deny the theory of evolution of being true?
Quote: One animal coming from another is called reproduction.
It was implyed (sp?) what i said, sorry that i didn't spell it out for you.
Quote: Excuse me for not knowing some people are too lazy to just write micro or macro instead of changing a capital letter of the word evolution (which would make it incorrect grammer wise) and assuming we where talking about general evolution since I did not have any reason to think otherwise. Do note I will continue to use the word evolution when talking about, well.. evolution, and not use improper capitalisation because I'm afraid I'll misspell micro or macro and everybody will laugh at me.
The english writing is very complicated, and stupit, and i agree that:
Quote: I'm afraid I'll misspell micro or macro and everybody will laugh at me.
Quote: as far as I know, the theory of evolutoin has not yet been proven wrong
hence what i have been saying, people are given the proof, and won't believe what it says, or are told the evidance ( i will have the bacteria evidance by next monday)
Quote: religious majority who don't understand what they are talking about and just hurl random accusations and/or arguments
I have spent many hours learning about evolution, and darwin, while people believe something after not even reading it, or having any proof (theory of evolution has no proof as we've gone over), so plz don't say that.
Quote: Intelligence is not relative, it's a capabilty of usng one's brains for planning and such things (check wikipedia for the online definition of intelligence). This means that if these properties applied to all the species of the world they would all be considered intelligent. However, in real life we would probably redifine the term intelligence so it would no longer apply to every creature we know of.
Intelligence is relative, if i have a I.Q. of 200, and my friend has a I.Q. of 250, another with 100 i would seem unintelligent to him, but to the the second friend i would seem Quite Intelligent, so am i Intelligent or not? (this is all just made up on the fly)
Back on topic: If the aliens take 200 years to get here, wouldn't be a waste of time, first off, what says they live longer than us, and to say they would spend 200 years coming here, wouldn't they stop at other planets first, and we would see them?, also we are not very interestion, except for the war and knives and sticks and things. |
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Jedd
1980 Pong World Champion
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Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 823
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| Posted: 05 Jan 2004 07:10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: Back on topic: If the aliens take 200 years to get here, wouldn't be a waste of time, first off, what says they live longer than us, and to say they would spend 200 years coming here, wouldn't they stop at other planets first, and we would see them?
It would take longer. If they are 200 light years away (like the equation estimates) it would take them thousands upon thousands (I won't even try to get a number) of years to get here. Good point with the age thing though. As for stopping at other planets, no, planets are too far away for us to see them in that detail. The moon is visible enough to see a match being lit on the surface, and we can see most of the terrain features of mars. Beyond that, everything gets extremely blurry. For example, in 1977 we believed Neptune had two moons. That year we sent out the Voyager to explore the planets, on account of the temporary planetary alignment (spelchek?) that year (it only happens every 175 years). As the sattelite approached Neptune, it discovered 6 MORE moons* in addition to the 2 we already knew about. If you go even further out, Pluto, you will find a blue speck, with very little light, in no more than a 16x16 pixel frame. For the longest time we didn't even see that it had a moon. It's fascinating how we know so much about the creation of the universe, black holes, supernovae, and distant galaxies, but so little about our own solar system. The truth is, they could fly right past and we might not even know.
Quote: also we are not very interestion, except for the war and knives and sticks and things.
Lookout! A board with a nail in it!
Last edited by Guest on 05 Jan 2004 07:58:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeremiah Walgren
General Operations Director
Know-It-All
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 1937
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| Posted: 05 Jan 2004 07:47:29 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: As the sattelite approached Neptune, it discovered 6 MORE planets in addition to the 2 we already knew about.
Don't you mean moons?
Last edited by Guest on 05 Jan 2004 07:48:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jedd
1980 Pong World Champion
Elite
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 823
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| Posted: 05 Jan 2004 07:57:20 pm Post subject: |
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| hehe yeah. Those are a little different.... |
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Jeremiah Walgren
General Operations Director
Know-It-All
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 1937
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| Posted: 05 Jan 2004 07:59:42 pm Post subject: |
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Just slightly, but an honest mistake. (I almost put "planets" in for "moons" on the correction...  ) |
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Arcane Wizard
`semi-hippie`
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 8993
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| Posted: 06 Jan 2004 08:33:40 am Post subject: |
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JesusFreak wrote: But from what you believe, we all came from the same thing, over a period of time, so then using that logic, and the statement that we a intelligent race, that must mean the first step that we Evolved from must have been intelligent, and so the second step would be intelligent, and so on untill we "Evolved".
You still don't really get what I mean, let me try again. With an intelligent specie evolving I do not mean an unintelligent specie involving into an intelligent specie, but the evolution of a specie which happends to be intelligent. And since all species evolve, any specie that happens to be intelligent would also be evolving.
Quote: Micro is one animal from one species, not the general species. ( i have talked with a lot of teachers, profesors, etc. and this is what it is) It doesn't nescesarrily involve only one animal, it's possible but unlikely. You see, what happends is that there is this one animal (or a very small number anyway) which happends to have, say, a shorter tail than is normal in it's species, say dogs.
Now, what is done with selective (as in humans select) breeding is that somebody picks a couple of dogs with the properties he want's to develop further in future dogs (say for example he want's his line of dogs to have really long tails) and let's them have baby dogs. These baby dogs will have a slightly longer tail than average and if he'd continue this for a while he'd get a new kind of dog with a very long tail. This is microevolution. If this evolution is to go even futher up to the point that a really new specie has evolved you have macroevolution.
Micro evolution: evolution within a specie, no new specie has developed.
Macro evolution: evolution of a specie, either an entirely new specie develops or it branches into several new species with the original (likely) dieing out.
Mind you, it's not easy to say where micro evolution ends and macro evolution starts.
Quote: But wouldn't the original species die out, and the new one be better than the last, for if it was worse than the original, then it would deny the theory of evolution of being true? Not nessecarrily, though it is very likely for the original specie to become extinct, for example there could be futher changes in the environment causing both species to be addapted just fine or the original specie might find a more suitable environment. Anyway, it wouldn't just drop dead entirely, it would take some time for it to become extinct (providing there is no other reason for the specie to die off altogether).
Quote: hence what i have been saying, people are given the proof, and won't believe what it says, or are told the evidance ( i will have the bacteria evidance by next monday) Like I said, as far as I know, which means I have never in my life seen actual proof of the theory of evolution to be false. Though I must say I'm very interested in any proof like that.
Quote: I have spent many hours learning about evolution, and darwin, while people believe something after not even reading it, or having any proof (theory of evolution has no proof as we've gone over), so plz don't say that. So have I, but I concluded that it makes quite a lot of sense and found the theorie to be very interesting (it isn't confined to just biological changes in specie, it can also be recognized in social patterns and can even be used in artificial intelligence to 'evolve' solutions to a problem) so until I see any reason to disbelieve that it's true I won't.
Quote: Intelligence is relative, if i have a I.Q. of 200, and my friend has a I.Q. of 250, another with 100 i would seem unintelligent to him, but to the the second friend i would seem Quite Intelligent, so am i Intelligent or not? (this is all just made up on the fly) You would be intelligent, but your friend with an IQ of 250 would be more intelligent and your friend with an IQ of 100 would be less intelligent. Intelligence ends where you are incapable of planning and such (until you no longer have the properties that are required to be called intelligent).
So you are either intelligent or not, and then you can be more intelligent and less intelligent than others.
Quote: If the aliens take 200 years to get here, wouldn't be a waste of time, first off, what says they live longer than us, and to say they would spend 200 years coming here, wouldn't they stop at other planets first, and we would see them?, also we are not very interestion, except for the war and knives and sticks and things. Quite, though the chances of us seeing them would still be very slim, even if they did stop at other planets and such. It's just wait and see what will happend I suppose. |
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Job the GameQuitter
Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2003
Posts: 102
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| Posted: 09 Jan 2004 07:33:06 am Post subject: |
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Slow to respond, but respond I shall: yes, I am Dutch!
[picture a sillhouete of me making your average insane-genius-pose-with-lightning-in-the-background]
Muahahahahaha!!! |
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Arcane Wizard
`semi-hippie`
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 8993
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| Posted: 09 Jan 2004 01:05:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Awesome, which city? |
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shadowing
Powered by 64
Calc Guru
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 1002
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| Posted: 09 Jan 2004 10:26:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey, but are aliens really smart and up to what extent? I think aliens come in all shapes and sizes. |
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DarkerLine
ceci n'est pas une |
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 8328
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| Posted: 10 Jan 2004 02:01:59 pm Post subject: |
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shadowing wrote: I think aliens come in all shapes and sizes.
With a 50% discount on a bug-eyed monster if you also get a green humanoid with tentacles. |
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DmitriB
Advanced Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Posts: 319
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| Posted: 10 Jan 2004 02:03:54 pm Post subject: |
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mmm.......alien, its whats for dinner.  |
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shadowing
Powered by 64
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Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 1002
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| Posted: 10 Jan 2004 03:23:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Wonder what their blood looks like. |
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DarkerLine
ceci n'est pas une |
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 8328
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| Posted: 10 Jan 2004 03:25:12 pm Post subject: |
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| It's in a gaseous state at room temperature. |
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shadowing
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Joined: 06 Jan 2004
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| Posted: 10 Jan 2004 03:30:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you sure? I thought it was green and poisonous to humans stated in an episode in the X-files. |
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JesusFreak
JesusFreak
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 537
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| Posted: 10 Jan 2004 08:49:14 pm Post subject: |
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| if everyone in the world had a board with a nail in it, then it would be a scary world. |
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shadowing
Powered by 64
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Joined: 06 Jan 2004
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| Posted: 10 Jan 2004 09:57:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Huh? Oh right. |
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Open Topic & United-TI Talk => General Open Topic
