Torque 3D Upgrade? FB:TBG enthusiasts please help!
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  • Torque 3D Upgrade? FB:TBG enthusiasts please help!
  • 29 Jan 2011 01:08:16 pm
  • Last edited by elfprince13 on 19 Aug 2014 12:33:44 am; edited 1 time in total
GarageGames is having a sale right now with a limited time offer with source code access to T3D for only $99! Unfortunately I won't have this much cash sitting around for another month, and I have no idea how long the offer will last. If 10 of you contribute $10 (or 5 of you, $20), we can upgrade to the latest + greatest Torque Tech (with modern physics and rendering code) which could save a lot of time upgrading our old TGE 1.5.2. Please consider supporting the development of this game. Obviously donations are appreciated, but if you're really cash strapped, make an "investment" instead, and I'll send your $10 back in a month's time when I get some paychecks. Let's not miss what could be a one time opportunity, since T3D is usually in the $1500 range.

Please post here if you're considering a contribution, and I'll PM you my mailing address.
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YES! YESSS! Sadly, I cannot donate, but I wish you get the money. By the way, does T3D have more datablocks?
Elfprince I would happily donate a few $$ to this, also would the source code access only be for one person or can other have access?

"Always code as if the person who will maintain your code is a maniac serial killer that knows where you live" -Unknown

"If you've done something right no one will know that you've done anything at all" -Futurama

"Have a nice day, or not, the choice is yours." Tom Steiner

<Michael_V> or create a Borg collective and call it The 83+
<Michael_V> Lower your slide cases and prepare to be silent linked. Memory clears are futile.
SpaceNinja wrote:
YES! YESSS! Sadly, I cannot donate, but I wish you get the money. By the way, does T3D have more datablocks?

I don't know if the datablock limit has changed for T3D, but the plan is that we won't have to waste datablocks on bricks. I would hope 1024 datablocks is enough to cover our weapon, vehicle, player-data and mapping needs. Dynload should also help to alleviate that need.

TheStorm wrote:
Elfprince I would happily donate a few $$ to this, also would the source code access only be for one person or can other have access?


One $99 dollar license gets one engine programmer, afaik, but if we could raise enough money for multiple programmers that would be even better (assuming we had some C/C++ programmers interested in filling the roles). I'll look into licensing a little more carefully when I'm done with physics homework.
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Won't this elevate the system requirements to crushing levels? And won't you still need to rework the rendering system in order to support LDraw?
DShiznit wrote:
Won't this elevate the system requirements to crushing levels? And won't you still need to rework the rendering system in order to support LDraw?


Modest, but not exactly crushing. I'm also guessing that on the Mac end I can take those requirements down a notch unless they have very specific framework requirements.
Quote:
Windows-based Computers
Minimum Requirements:
Windows XP or Vista
Intel or AMD Processor @ 1 Ghz
512 MB RAM (1GB recommended for Vista)
100% DirectX compatible video card with 256 MB video RAM required
DirectX 9.0c+

Recommended Requirements:
Windows XP or Vista with latest service packs installed
Dual-Core Intel or AMD processor @ 2.0 GHZ or better
2 GB RAM
100% DirectX compatible nVidia based video card with 1GB or more video RAM
PhysX SDK and Runtime
DirectX 9.0c+


Apple-based Computers
Minimum Requirements:*
OSX 10.6.1
Intel-based Macs only
2 GB RAM
ATI or nVidia shader model 4.0+ video cards with 256 MB video RAM required
XCode version 3.2 or better


There are a few more licensing restrictions as far as modding vs total conversion is concerned, but I'm planning to email GG tonight/tomorrow to discuss that.


As far as the rendering goes, yes, there will be some OpenGL code I have to write, but (afaict/have read) T3D has an intelligently written and modern rendering system, and an abstracted Physics API, so those aspects won't require the total overhaul that was necessary with 1.5.2. In my personal opinion the benefits of upgrading far outway the downsides, particularly if the new management is reasonable about the licensing (and it sounds like they will be, from the blog post on the front page).
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Those increased requirements would effectively kill the game for me, as right now it barely runs on my netbook, which was one of the appeals to TBM/Blockland.
Also, wouldn't this end that nice relationship you had with that guy you were working with to overhaul the engine?
Quote:
Windows XP or Vista with latest service packs installed

Does this include Windows 7?

Quote:
Apple-based Computers

This means it's automatically for the Mac too?
DShiznit wrote:
Those increased requirements would effectively kill the game for me, as right now it barely runs on my netbook, which was one of the appeals to TBM/Blockland.
Also, wouldn't this end that nice relationship you had with that guy you were working with to overhaul the engine?


What are your netbook specs again? Surely you can pull off 1GHz and a half gb of RAM? I'm definitely not planning to push the graphics envelope with this game (in terms of shaders or heavy texture usage), and I'd go so far as to use your machine as a baseline supported machine to make sure you could run it.

Also, he's considering the same upgrade.


SpaceNinja wrote:
Quote:
Windows XP or Vista with latest service packs installed

Does this include Windows 7?

I still haven't found a program that will run on Vista but not 7.

Quote:
Quote:
Apple-based Computers

This means it's automatically for the Mac too?

Yes, just like the current setup.
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I think I could definitely drop $99 on a license ^^,

Has Torque emailed you back about restrictions yet?
swivelgames wrote:
I think I could definitely drop $99 on a license ^^,

Has Torque emailed you back about restrictions yet?


I just got an email out today since the weekend was busy with helping Courtney get ready for college, so I'm expecting to hear back tomorrow. Would you be purchasing a license for yourself in order to help out with development, or would you be donating/loaning to my purchase of a license? I should have $99 free by mid-February, I'm just concerned that I won't have it in time to actually purchase the game engine before the offer expires.

Quote:
Dear GarageGames Licensing Staff,

I am currently a licensee of the classic Torque Game Engine version
1.5.2 (my account is under the email address elfprince13@gmail.com),
and I've been working on a game with it in my free time for several
years. I had previously considered upgrading to Torque 3D, but my
project requires engine modification, and the cost was prohibitive for
a student with my income. Given the current discounted price of T3D I
am reconsidering an upgrade, but I have one significant concern about
doing so. My game is primarily a sandbox game, so obviously I want to
support extensive modifiability of core game-play mechanics. Second, I
have traditionally relied on my supporting community
(http://www.cemetech.net) to script nonessential functionality in
order to bring my game to a polished and playable state as quickly as
possible. Under the licensing scheme of TGE 1.5.2, I have been allowed
to leave my script sources open in order to support this activity. The
licensing for T3D appears to prohibit the open-sourcing of my scripts,
which would obviously hinder my ability to switch engines. I have
already begun an attempt at overhauling and modernizing the physics
and rendering of TGE 1.5.2, but obviously I would appreciate being
able to concentrate my efforts on gameplay and support the last couple
years of development at GarageGames. My hope is that we would be able
to reach some sort of agreement under which I can continue to share
the source of my scripts with the community supporting my development
in order to retain their support and good feelings.

As an aside, could you provide me with a time-frame of how long I can
expect the current discounted offer to stand? This week's paycheck is
already set aside to take care of my expenses for the semester, and it
will probably be at least until Monday the 21st that I can place my
order. I am seeking funding from donations in order to make the
purchase earlier, but obviously my supporting community would also
like reassurances that they will be able to continue to participate in
the scripted development.

Thank you,

Thomas Dickerson
Computer Science & Physics Student
Saint Michael's College
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Thomas, I would gladly contribute some $$ to this. Let me know.
Geopipe
KermMartian wrote:
Thomas, I would gladly contribute some $$ to this. Let me know.


If you, Jonimus, and Swivel all contributed we could probably pull it off. Let's wait and see what I hear from GG's licensing department tomorrow, and if it sounds good I can PM everyone my address, or we can do PayPal or something. I'm happy to reimburse everyone mid-Feb, so just tell me (privately) whether you want it to be a donation or a loan.
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elfprince13 wrote:
KermMartian wrote:
Thomas, I would gladly contribute some $$ to this. Let me know.


If you, Jonimus, and Swivel all contributed we could probably pull it off. Let's wait and see what I hear from GG's licensing department tomorrow, and if it sounds good I can PM everyone my address, or we can do PayPal or something. I'm happy to reimburse everyone mid-Feb, so just tell me (privately) whether you want it to be a donation or a loan.
I'd probably be interested in making mine a donation, since I've enjoyed TBM so much in the past, have precious little free time to be able to donate coding time, and look forward to enjoying it in the future.
Geopipe
Quote:
100% DirectX compatible video card with 256 MB video RAM required

My netbook(ASUS EeePC) doesn't have a good graphics card like this, unless an integrated Intel chipset can pull this off. I didn't think you'd push the engine, but I was worried when I read that it needs a good video card. I also need to know if this new engine will require pixel-shader 1.4, as the older chipset that my brother's desktop uses does not support this.

My parents owe me $90 in Christmas money, but I still need to buy some supplies for calc repairs.
KermMartian wrote:
elfprince13 wrote:
KermMartian wrote:
Thomas, I would gladly contribute some $$ to this. Let me know.


If you, Jonimus, and Swivel all contributed we could probably pull it off. Let's wait and see what I hear from GG's licensing department tomorrow, and if it sounds good I can PM everyone my address, or we can do PayPal or something. I'm happy to reimburse everyone mid-Feb, so just tell me (privately) whether you want it to be a donation or a loan.
I'd probably be interested in making mine a donation, since I've enjoyed TBM so much in the past, have precious little free time to be able to donate coding time, and look forward to enjoying it in the future.

That is extremely generous of you. I'll let you know what GG Licensing says tomorrow. I'm feeling good about the possibilities since GG is GG once more and longer owned by InstantAction.

DShiznit wrote:
Quote:
100% DirectX compatible video card with 256 MB video RAM required

My netbook(ASUS EeePC) doesn't have a good graphics card like this, unless an integrated Intel chipset can pull this off. I didn't think you'd push the engine, but I was worried when I read that it needs a good video card. I also need to know if this new engine will require pixel-shader 1.4, as the older chipset that my brother's desktop uses does not support this.

My parents owe me $90 in Christmas money, but I still need to buy some supplies for calc repairs.

The system requirements don't say anything specific about what pixel shaders are needed, only DirectX 9.0c. And I think Intel integrated cards can do 256MB if you have enough shared system memory for them. And again, I'll be willing to work with you to see what sorts of eye candy can be disabled to better support your hardware. Part of the catch-22 of all this is a lot of newer features can actually improve performance over older ways of doing the same thing, if your card supports it, but hopefully your modern enough that your card will support the code I'm planning to use.
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Sounds good.
DShiznit wrote:
Sounds good.

Could you take the time to download the T3D demo from GG and try running it on both of your potential FB computers, experimenting at different resolutions and with different graphics options turned on and describe how it handled (in terms of responsiveness) while exploring the steampunk and desert levels? On my less powerful graphics card (9400M 256MB card) I was able to run around quite smoothly, even with all the "advanced" options turned on. My initial suspicion is that FreeBuild will make larger demands as far as geometry rendering is concerned, but less demands as far as texturing and special effects are concerned.
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Alright, after trying it on my netbook:

Steampunk map: abysmal

Desert: poor

Blank Room: Good

This was with the graphics as down as they would go(EDIT- even at 640x480 resolution) and the player and his primary weapon didn't even render. The PhysX library requires an NVidia GeForce video card to run so those demos were a no-go(anyone who does have a great computer, but decided to buy an ATI card(since NVidia ones sucked in 08-09) would be out of luck on this front as well), and my console has more red than a Chinese flag(I'd post a log but it's actually too long for Cemetech to handle).

I guess I'll try it on my other computer tomorrow, but I doubt I'll get better results.
After releasing a mod I made with T3D I noticed alot of users that tried it got crashes that me and other people didnt.
  
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