I am gonna agree somewhat with Zera here. The whole "let's do everything ever for you" was annoying when I started using Opera ( back in the 6.x days! ) but as I soon found out, I can install it as a portable app, or install it on some random part of some networked drive, and have all of my programs in one. So it was handy then.

Though on OS X it's a pain because there are still a fair amount of GUI bugs to keep me from using it. Not that I would because the rendering is slow anyway. But that is a different story.

And I was still hoping FX4 would have an update in GUI as well as back-end for OS X, but I guess that is what Camino is really for. Not that Camino has been updated too recently. The fact that FX doesn't look like a standard aqua app, is really irksome.

I don't really see the point in turning off those features over using a browser without them, though; I know somewhere deep in memory those features are just waiting to take and leak memory. I hear what you're saying about flexibility, but until I become unhappy with the amount of flexibility that Firefox has, I think I'll stick with it.

Same thing I said still applies here. I've never said anything of the sort. Again, XUL is to make GUIs with - nothing more.



Hence why I'm calling you an idiot. You have no basis for your complaints, and have already shown that you can barely follow the terminology in the first place. You are ranting about something you know nothing about.



That sentiment is one you manufactured in your own head. Mozilla has never actively promoted or encouraged 3rd parties to use XUL.



Which aren't complaints about JavaScript, but rather the libraries that are a part of HTML 4.

Also, this is a perfect time to point out once again that you are ranting about things you know nothing about, since your list of what JavaScript is missing is more like a list of what JavaScript *has*. DB access and direct drawing are actually in HTML 5, and WebGL is adding OpenGL support. And precision math? JavaScript supports doubles, how much more precision do you want? More importantly, what does a GUI need with more precision? Even 3D games only use single precision (and they still cut corners on things like sin and cos). And if you really truly need more precision, you are more than welcome to create it (or find a library doing it).



Glade is a tool that creates the XML with a WYSIWYG editor. The XML UI support is actually are part of GTK itself - glade had nothing to do with that. Glade previously generated the C or Python code to create the GTK GUI. It existed before XML support was added to GTK.



Because there are 2 GUI APIs on Linux to pick from, GTK+ or QT. The Mozilla and Google teams are Gnome fans, clearly.



Uh... so? What does this have to do with anything? Nobody said GTK was bad or hard to use. Also, they didn't create a GTK+ portion of XUL, they layered XUL on top of GTK for Linux platforms. GTK is simply the underlying engine for Linux platforms (because drawing directly to X is a pain)



Because that would be beyond stupid. Firefox would then have *2* engines, one for (X)HTML, and one for XUL. The engines would have a massive amount of identical code. What possible reason is there to separate the two engines?

Glade supported loading GUI's through XML before GTK itself did. Before GTKBuilder, which is built into GTK, you still needed to link against libglade in order for the XML based UI to work. They are also not 100% compatible with each other and they both have their unique quirks, which is why some apps such as TiLP still use libglade. GTKBuilder was also not a stable API in the GTK versions that are also stable on windows. Once a new version of GTK comes out that is stable on windows I plan to move TiLP over to GTKBuilder.

Since reading the first post, I've known not to resort to butting heads with the OP, since he had already resigned himself to the fool's close-at-hand playbook: living in a microcosmic bubble, believing that the more passionate he is, the more influential his words will be – as though nothing else is required – and splurging on the freedom of defending of one's custom beliefs while ignoring the potential to have any errs repaired. (It is the veracity of statements, not the freedom to say them, that is undergoing peer review. However, it remains unchecked to which of these however many of us is constantly pandering.)

Honest-to-goodness, don't be one to hold a homemade idea in a higher light than a construct whose presence and identifying traits persist equivalently as though it had received none of our involvement to certify it. This is in the same bed as the school of thought that science "wants" to subvert our rationale, when in reality we humans, clever/stupid as we are, unwittingly use nonsense as a tool to thumb our noses at the unpalatability of choice facts for nothing more than our own selfish gratification, a cop-out that is not missing in this thread.

Kllrnohj knows how to behave well enough in this context, so if you need pointers, I recommend going to him, but bring with you some politeness and sincerity.

Let's just try harder next time.

@Kllrnohj: My fingers are too tired of debating back and forth, and I have better things to do than argue about little things. So I'll put the argument in hiatus. We can go on forever arguing, and I don't have the time or energy to really continue on. If you really want to continue debating, do it via PM or IRC. I don't want this topic to just be filled with this.


Yeah, I remember that. libglade was actually feeling like an annoyance than a benefactor. If the user didn't have libglade installed, it doesn't work. (Play with Puppy, and you'll see)

My suggestion is to look into the GNOME wiki to track their progress on stabilizing and removing the deprecated portions of GTK+, and then once their done cleaning up, test it out. Hopefully by then it's ready to use.



So using big gigantic words make you look smart?
(If you are a serious college student, scholar, or professor, I applaud you for good diction, something which I have yet to master with my papers... but I advise you to keep it in a whitepaper or any paper in general, not a forum like this.)

You are missing the point of this whole topic. My only goal was to see the opinions of others, debate, and perhaps come to a solid consensus over the idea. I'd never expect it to become something like this.

Better yet, you don't get the point about people in general. I definitely am living in a bubble. So do you, and everyone else in the world. We have our own opinions and ideas. There will always be factions, as they occur naturally. However, it's the decision of the person to modify their ideas that counts. Personally, I would refrain from commenting about my own ability to do so, since there's always a potential for debate about that too. I'll only say this: I like and hate things, but am open to changing views. I never fully love something - I have both positive and negative opinions about each thing encountered in life.

In the end, all I'll say is that your assertion is pretty flawed at best, and that everyone, not just me, has their own "bubble" (if you want to use it negatively), but it's their decision as to whether or not to alter their views.

You've actually contradicting yourself with this post, although with your "bubble", you may not realize that you are touching a fine line. I won't point that line out either, since I don't want this topic to nuke. Anyone who looks into that reply might find it too. If you want to debate about that little line I've pointed out, please do it in a new topic, not in this.

Kllrnohj is a pretty smart person, and I look forward to having more discussions with him. Maybe a bit hot tempered, but certainly not a bad person. Debate is another thing, especially with his fine "french".

I agree with one point though - let's restart this topic with a clean slate, and discuss/debate in a non-crazy way.

In conclusion - how about we get this topic back on track and have a solid, intelligent discussion?

I would be elated if this kind of prose were to be used on a regular basis on a forum like this.

Hehe, then this would become more of an educational forum than a calculator forum.

Not a bad thought, but I'm pretty sure this forum would become a shantytown if that was required.

I didn't know that, but that still doesn't really change anything. The entire point of Glade is the WYSIWYG editor. Whether or not it uses XML is irrelevant, since the goal is for the developer to never see it. That is very different from something like XUL or WPF or HTML - where the developer is expected to and often does create the UI using the markup directly.

This this this. I would love to have more posts like that where, if I wanted to understand the deeper meaning of the post, I'd have to google or ask someone about it. It would make us all more fluent speakers with larger vocabularies.

According to http://lifehacker.com/5658502/firefox-mobile-beta-now-available-for-android-and-maemo the new builds of Fennec, the ACTUAL BETA, are a lot better than the alpha builds. Which is stellar. I can only say I hope that the guy that does the cross-over builds for the Palm Pre picks up this new beta and makes it a batter experience.