What chip speed should be used for this project?
eZ80 20 MHZ
 6%  [ 1 ]
eZ80 50 MHZ
 26%  [ 4 ]
eZ80 50 MHZ, underclockable to 20 MHZ
 66%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 15

I thought it was z80 no backlight, arm backlight, but I am quite uninformed Razz
alberthrocks wrote:
KermMartian wrote:
alberthrocks wrote:
Some more info about the project:

1) OS will be coded by SirCmpwn and others
Are there any tenets of philosophy for the OS construction yet? Any design guidelines?
alberthrocks wrote:
2) Calc has backlight
This is something you'd mentioned a lot and seem pretty adamant about, but no arguments here.


Not really, the main goal is to have something that is 99% of TI's OS, and works similarly with the buttons and such so that OTZ80 is a viable alternative. Smile

The only issue I see there is that it must be enough different that we don't have to worry about potential copywrite lawsuits.
Part of out problem is TI did do some things right and making it so we don't outright copy those things will be a challenge.
There's not a lot to copy that can't be copyrighted though. If it's used in both TI and Casio, or TI and HP, we should be fine in that area.

We'd definitely need a different button layout though. Not like different number neccesarily, but different positions at least, if not different buttons entirely.
TheStorm wrote:
alberthrocks wrote:
KermMartian wrote:
alberthrocks wrote:
Some more info about the project:

1) OS will be coded by SirCmpwn and others
Are there any tenets of philosophy for the OS construction yet? Any design guidelines?
alberthrocks wrote:
2) Calc has backlight
This is something you'd mentioned a lot and seem pretty adamant about, but no arguments here.


Not really, the main goal is to have something that is 99% of TI's OS, and works similarly with the buttons and such so that OTZ80 is a viable alternative. Smile

The only issue I see there is that it must be enough different that we don't have to worry about potential copywrite lawsuits.
Part of out problem is TI did do some things right and making it so we don't outright copy those things will be a challenge.


Keys are very tricky, no doubt. Software is easier to do though. Make it prettier yet easy to use. Maybe change how variables and graph stuff are named. Smile
willrandship wrote:
There's not a lot to copy that can't be copyrighted though. If it's used in both TI and Casio, or TI and HP, we should be fine in that area.

We'd definitely need a different button layout though. Not like different number neccesarily, but different positions at least, if not different buttons entirely.


^this
alberthrocks wrote:
TheStorm wrote:
alberthrocks wrote:
KermMartian wrote:
alberthrocks wrote:
Some more info about the project:

1) OS will be coded by SirCmpwn and others
Are there any tenets of philosophy for the OS construction yet? Any design guidelines?
alberthrocks wrote:
2) Calc has backlight
This is something you'd mentioned a lot and seem pretty adamant about, but no arguments here.


Not really, the main goal is to have something that is 99% of TI's OS, and works similarly with the buttons and such so that OTZ80 is a viable alternative. Smile

The only issue I see there is that it must be enough different that we don't have to worry about potential copywrite lawsuits.
Part of out problem is TI did do some things right and making it so we don't outright copy those things will be a challenge.


Keys are very tricky, no doubt. Software is easier to do though. Make it prettier yet easy to use. Maybe change how variables and graph stuff are named. Smile

I know we are a long way from this point but I Personally think 85/86/Casio style menus are a must, being able to see your work and the menu is soooo nice.
TheStorm wrote:
alberthrocks wrote:
TheStorm wrote:
alberthrocks wrote:
KermMartian wrote:
alberthrocks wrote:
Some more info about the project:

1) OS will be coded by SirCmpwn and others
Are there any tenets of philosophy for the OS construction yet? Any design guidelines?
alberthrocks wrote:
2) Calc has backlight
This is something you'd mentioned a lot and seem pretty adamant about, but no arguments here.


Not really, the main goal is to have something that is 99% of TI's OS, and works similarly with the buttons and such so that OTZ80 is a viable alternative. Smile

The only issue I see there is that it must be enough different that we don't have to worry about potential copywrite lawsuits.
Part of out problem is TI did do some things right and making it so we don't outright copy those things will be a challenge.


Keys are very tricky, no doubt. Software is easier to do though. Make it prettier yet easy to use. Maybe change how variables and graph stuff are named. Smile

I know we are a long way from this point but I Personally think 85/86/Casio style menus are a must, being able to see your work and the menu is soooo nice.


Haha, this too Razz

I would love some GUI stuff (mouse anyone) Oh, that reminds me! OS controlled USB stuff (like mice, keyboards, etc) Better yet, two usb ports (and not the mini ones x.x)
yes, I loved the 86's menu. Maybe something a bit more inclusive, since we'll be using a bigger screen, but I definitely like the idea. It made programming so much easier, especially with the custom menu.
Casio has the same graphing method:


@TheStorm: What do you mean by that? Like menus below the screen?
in the 86, menus would open as the last bar on the screen, and you could select stuff while still typing.



All menus are like that, on the bottom of the screen. Very handy.
Well, you don't want it to be too similar to the TI-OS (any TI-OS), otherwise there's no point in making a replacement. Very Happy
KermMartian wrote:
Well, you don't want it to be too similar to the TI-OS (any TI-OS), otherwise there's no point in making a replacement. Very Happy


True, it'll definitely be 100x better than it, and may have a home screen as well (KnightOS's Castle seems to indicate that), but what's the point of selling it as an alternative if it doesn't have a similar GUI? Wink
alberthrocks wrote:
KermMartian wrote:
Well, you don't want it to be too similar to the TI-OS (any TI-OS), otherwise there's no point in making a replacement. Very Happy


True, it'll definitely be 100x better than it, and may have a home screen as well (KnightOS's Castle seems to indicate that), but what's the point of selling it as an alternative if it doesn't have a similar GUI? Wink
The point is that you want to make something powerful and more specialized that appeals to a higher class of consumer, one that perhaps knows more advanced math, more advanced programming, and is interested in using their calculator for both. TI is forced to make very diluted products that have to appeal to a very wide range of skill levels and knowledge sets.
KermMartian wrote:
alberthrocks wrote:
KermMartian wrote:
Well, you don't want it to be too similar to the TI-OS (any TI-OS), otherwise there's no point in making a replacement. Very Happy


True, it'll definitely be 100x better than it, and may have a home screen as well (KnightOS's Castle seems to indicate that), but what's the point of selling it as an alternative if it doesn't have a similar GUI? Wink
The point is that you want to make something powerful and more specialized that appeals to a higher class of consumer, one that perhaps knows more advanced math, more advanced programming, and is interested in using their calculator for both. TI is forced to make very diluted products that have to appeal to a very wide range of skill levels and knowledge sets.


No, the goal is to offer it as an alternative. If only developers, geeks, and hackers are the ones using it, this would be more like a hacker calc sold on a website, not something sold in your local Staples. Wink

We will have these hidden stuff inside. As always, everything's still up in the air atm. Programming will definitely be 1000x better, no doubt! Very Happy And what do you mean by stronger math? Many buttons stay the same, but maybe some more functions could be implemented. That certainly will be useful. Wink
Personally, an 86 with flash is all I really need to be happy. :p
Wait, you want full button-to-button compatibility with the TI-OS? I don't know what a good idea that is; I feel like it could cripple the possibilities for this device. What do the rest of you think?

And I must be realistic and honest, which I know is not something everyone wants to here. Until Cemetech becomes an incorporated company and starts manufacturing new and better calculators, I don't think it's realistic to think that the OT project will be sold in retail stores alongside TI's devices, when they have the massive educational presence and marketing power for promoting their products (and even Casio and HP, who have equally-large departments for such things, are specks in TI's shadow).
KermMartian wrote:
Wait, you want full button-to-button compatibility with the TI-OS? I don't know what a good idea that is; I feel like it could cripple the possibilities for this device. What do the rest of you think?

And I must be realistic and honest, which I know is not something everyone wants to here. Until Cemetech becomes an incorporated company and starts manufacturing new and better calculators, I don't think it's realistic to think that the OT project will be sold in retail stores alongside TI's devices, when they have the massive educational presence and marketing power for promoting their products (and even Casio and HP, who have equally-large departments for such things, are specks in TI's shadow).


Nah. There's plenty of opportunities. Who said we would have the exact same buttons? Very Happy

You're right about the unlikeliness that the calc will be sold in stores. It doesn't mean that it's impossible, just unlikely. If this does get past all the stages of development, I'm happy. If this gets into the retail market, I'm really happy. Wink The point is that we don't know how far this will go. So what if TI seemingly rules the calc industry? Casio and HP don't really care that much. Maybe Casio more, but in my head, they're more of the simple calc company. (No graphing and such) HP has plenty of other things to manage, so it's no surprise that they moved on.

Even if it is tricky to get it into the market, I'd still like to try. Today, while I was listening to the radio, I heard this ad for Staples. There was a kid VA who was talking about how expensive school is, and they listed a graphing calculator. That just is kinda sad on how TI gets to overcharge a $50 product, and this calc is required for many courses.

In the end: I'd hope for the best, try to get it to the market with its many appeals, and if it doesn't work out, at least we were warned. Smile
alberthrocks wrote:
Nah. There's plenty of opportunities. Who said we would have the exact same buttons? Very Happy
I thought you said you wanted keystroke compatibility... I must have misunderstood.

alberthrocks wrote:
You're right about the unlikeliness that the calc will be sold in stores. It doesn't mean that it's impossible, just unlikely. If this does get past all the stages of development, I'm happy. If this gets into the retail market, I'm really happy. Wink The point is that we don't know how far this will go. So what if TI seemingly rules the calc industry? Casio and HP don't really care that much. Maybe Casio more, but in my head, they're more of the simple calc company. (No graphing and such) HP has plenty of other things to manage, so it's no surprise that they moved on.
Even so, they have vastly more resources when they're not even trying than when 20 or so community members with other school and work and life commitments are trying their hardest. Smile

alberthrocks wrote:
Even if it is tricky to get it into the market, I'd still like to try. Today, while I was listening to the radio, I heard this ad for Staples. There was a kid VA who was talking about how expensive school is, and they listed a graphing calculator. That just is kinda sad on how TI gets to overcharge a $50 product, and this calc is required for many courses.
Definitely. However, keep in mind that any prototype, even in decent quantities, is still gonna be expensive once you take into account the hardware, the fabrication, and the assembly. Not to mention the time that will have to be spent coding the OS.

alberthrocks wrote:
In the end: I'd hope for the best, try to get it to the market with its many appeals, and if it doesn't work out, at least we were warned. Smile
For sure, I also look forward to seeing how far this gets before people lose interest or get too busy. Smile
A lot of the simplicity people will need will be in the software. hackers, geeks and techies can be happy that they can write their own OS, while simple students can stick with KnightOS, or perhaps something even simpler, if it is written. I don't see much of an issue with pleasing a wide range of people. People can make the calc what they want it to be.


I was thinking, what about using non-custom cases? If we can find a case already being manufactured that fits our needs, silkscreen it with our text, logos and such, why bother spending tens of thousands on injection molds?
willrandship wrote:
A lot of the simplicity people will need will be in the software. hackers, geeks and techies can be happy that they can write their own OS, while simple students can stick with KnightOS, or perhaps something even simpler, if it is written. I don't see much of an issue with pleasing a wide range of people. People can make the calc what they want it to be.
But that's the thing, if you're aiming for the education market, we need something polished, functional, fast, and stable. If you're aiming for the hacker/geek/techie crowd, you want something simple and tweakable. I feel like aiming for both is going to make both things be done poorly.

willrandship wrote:
I was thinking, what about using non-custom cases? If we can find a case already being manufactured that fits our needs, silkscreen it with our text, logos and such, why bother spending tens of thousands on injection molds?
Indeed, an excellent point. Any ideas?
  
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