call it what you want, do what you want with them, we shall do what we like.

"Do not feed the troll" may work for Slashdot, but it doesn't work for Hays. period. And frankly, it's asking for more trouble.

The last time they were ignored, they got under the ticalc.org radar and snuck tetris gold in. It wasn't until Rabeler brought the issue and screamed and yelled about how better he was as an archiver that ticalc.org yanked the file because their new archiver didn't even know what Hays was. By then, you had a full blown mess on your hands with programmers wanting blood, where if the word was out much sooner, and they were jumped on the second they started pirating it would have never got that out of hand in the first place.

The way it works is simple. they keep doing bolder and bolder things until half the community wants them dead, then they die down waiting for the next generation of Ti programmers who never heard of them to let them get away with anything. If they are ignored eventually they will do something exponentially drastic to get everyone on their case again. whatever they do under that scenario is anybody's guess. Keeping them in check avoids that.

Frankly, It bothers me that so many people accept "It's a joke" as their answer. Especially on their guestbook. That's just giving them a ticket to cause another uproar to occur. Frankly, If it was a joke then why were they actively submitting pirate files until the achievers got sick of it? Why did they discredit members of the community when all it did was screw the people they targeted rather than making a laugh? Why didn't they do what Psychocorp was doing and simply write their own garbage apps and call it great and just leave it on their site, Especially since the "comedy" would have stayed intact and the community wouldn't have had to deal with them? Why Did they find it necessary to troll every guestbook/forum/board/mailinglist they could find that was TI related and bash all the people they were pirating/bashing?

I'm not saying that the minute Hays comes back we should jump on them, but the word one way or another has to get out that Hays is bad news, and a close eye should be kept on them to be safe.

Wow, excellent rant. I agree wholeheartedly.

like i said on CG a while back, they're like rats in a pantry... if you dont put out some poison, they keep eating the sugar...

Good analogy. Although are they the rats or the posion?

hopefully both... that way when they go around s***ing their own ****s, they will poison themselves to death...

Definitely. I think there's a possibility though, as certain people have pointed out, that in a way they act as an outlet for everyone's anger around the community, anger at what people might percieve as less mainstream groups such as Cemetech.

It would appear that Haysgames has been taken down... their site no longer works. i believe that this is my fault, but what do i know?

*victory dance*[/code]

...your point being? There are many more free site hosting services out there, shutting down their geocities site won't stall them for long.

ummm, yeah, didn't geocities shut them down once before, and they got it back anyways?

well, i was talking to Jc on AIM, and he had a great idea... we know their town and state and stuff, why not track them down and send mail to them...

then again, for every free hosting they get, we can have them shut down again... and again... and again.. until i dunno when...

Mail them angry letters? Somehow I think they'd just use that as fodder. I think the thing to do is either 1. ignore them or 2. request they be shut down every time they start a new site.

I agree, even though number 2 could be hard if they go with paid (yeah right) or know someone who will host on their own server.

True. Then maybe the best idea would be to ignore them.

Isn't that what I've been saying throughout this whole discussion?

lol...I guess we just see what they do. That is all that can be done right now...

yeah, we can't stop them, there are people who aren't too fond of Cemetech, but we are still here. That may come that way with Rivereye Studios, but I will deal with it.

Exactly. I think people need to see some REALLY quality stuff come out of Cemetech, like what I envision for DCS6, before they start to believe in us as a DS-quality group. Ah well, I'm glad you guys believe.

why do you think we stay around. All will work in due time. I hope to be thought of as a good programmer by the community also, not a little guy.

Excellent, thanks.