Now, first of all, one of Omnimaga's members has a shell in the concept phase he's calling NexGenGS. Fine, cool. I was reading over the thread and I thought to myself, "hmm, self, this sounds like something cool. However, he's basically gonna spend months rewriting the MOS routine, file handling, etc. Why not offer to let him make the features he planned to put into NexGenGS some kind of extension to DCS? Then he could save all the KB from shell stuff and focus his 16K (or 32K or whatever) on actual gaming libraries. That would be pretty cool!" So I posted a friendly post to this effect prefaced "Please understand I don't mean to insult NexGenGS at all or start a flame war" and ended with "Feel free to ignore me completely if you don't agree. Smile".

Halifax freaks.

I get the following PM (and my post was deleted, so I don't have any evidence of its innocuousness, but I hope given the eight years I've been a member of the community you'd trust me):
Halifax wrote:

First off. Do you not know how to read?? That was a mockup. Secondly f*** reinventing the wheel alright. This is a shell made by the community. Basically what that means is. If they want to change the desktop then I will code it in if they want routines in there then I will do my d*** best to get those routines in there. No the GUI is not grayscale. Yes the text has to be squished because of the screen constraints and to make it look like the 89t app screen. So why don't you think about that it isn't made by Jon or I. We are just the middlemen to provide the passage way to the people who have been dying to see THEIR REQUESTS, THEIR ROUTINES, THEIR IDEAS in a shell, but never had the manpower, the know-how, or anything other means of achieving so that they can see their dream come true. So that's what NexGenGS is. Maybe your just afraid of competition!!! Think about that.

But I will never reinvent the wheel. Fallen_Ghost wanted his routine in the library. Well then he got it. People wanted the MOS libs. They got it. Now of course there will be restrictions, but this is to be as open as possible.

Oh yeah and Kerm it would seem as though you are stealing my idea with that new s*** you implemented into DCS that shows the bytes. My taskbar isn't even close to what yours is and you have not even seen what that button does. So really just crawl back into your DoorsCS and don't go and accuse people of something you know nothing about. Maybe you should try talking to me sometime.

Edit: After reading more in-depth to your post. No I think you should dare not to include DCS as one of the main shells because if I recall 7/8th the people I know know nothing about DCS and the other 1/8 only know because I told them. Secondly why are you trying to persuade everyone to build something over DoorsCS?? Do expect me to sell out that easily? or even sell out at all?

Fine, he freaked, we yelled and argued on Omnimaga and IRC for a while, but eventually the thread was locked, we chatted more on IRC, and agreed to remain friends and mend the argument. However, this afternoon Kevin O blunders in, late and without any knowledge of the argument:

Unidentified senior Omni staff member (aka Kevin) wrote:

I've noticed recently that you attempted to start an anti-NextGenGS argument on Omnimaga. Knowing you have your own shell as competitor, DCS, I understand how you may want to prove that yours is better than his. Regardless of if it's true or not, the way you did it, the way you replied to people deleting your innapropriate posts, the way you talked about NextGenGS and the advertising in other people shells thread (why not stick to threads exclusively dedicated to DCS?) was innaceptable. Also, you launched an attack on the Omnimaga forum as a whole, because you disagreed with two or three people way of handling things. Get this: Halifax!=Omnimaga. Netham!=Omnimaga. Me!=Omnimaga. etc. We are just people working on a forum and making programs and music. The forum is just a big database where everyone can add stuff and it doesn't mean if you don't like how 4 or 5 ppl act that all 24 staff and the members are worth nothing. Since you caused the situation went totally out of hand,!
I have restricted your forum account from posting until I get internet access again, on july 3rd. You can still view the entire forums including all topics and posts, just not post.

I would like to ask you to not diss omnimaga and its staff on tcpa, cemetech, etc... for this, else, I will have to block you from the entire forum permanently.

I am sorry if I have to do this, but this was an extreme case. Again, this ban was not set for WHAT you said, but for HOW you said it.

For the third time, let me reiterate. I. Did. Not. Insult. Anything. Or. Anyone. In. My. Post. I made an honestly FRIENDLY post trying to be HELPFUL and offering what I thought was something advantageous to BOTH of us.

I thought this was settled last night, but now it's starting up thanks to Kevin. I always thought he defended people who were flamed, insulted, falsely-accused, and all that, but it turns out that's not the case at all.

I'm very disappointed in Kevin particularly, Netham second, but I feel that Jon and TIFreak8x stayed properly aloof, and I'm not even angry with Halifax anymore now that we worked things out.
ending the Pissing Contest = win, Kevin freaking out for no reason = fail.
elfprince13 wrote:
ending the Pissing Contest = win, Kevin freaking out for no reason = fail.
Exactly. Halifax and I had things all worked out; we both thought it was resolved. Apparently not, according to Kevin.
This brings into question, once more, whether or not people read or comprehend the entire content of long posts.
haveacalc wrote:
This brings into question, once more, whether or not people read or comprehend the entire content of long posts.
I definitely agree. However, in this case, it was highly detrimental to (my regard, anyway, of ) Omnimaga's reputation for people to assume and take action without full knowledge of a situation.
That's messed up! All they had to do was say "Thanks for the offer, but I think we will be fine" or something like that. And banning your account? What's that about? How did they send that message if their internet was down? (Never mind, I guess they could PM before it goes down and then comes back up on July 3rd). And what do you mean by "worked things out"? Did you already work something out with them? Are you able to post again?

Yeah, people don't read long posts, probably longer than this one if it is not broken up in the beginning with things like quotes, pictures or stuff like that...

And the thing about competition, oh yeah. I love to compete, I hope a lot of other people do to. But saying that someone wants to shut out the competition is wrong. If I remember correctly, Mirage was the only shell anybody used at my school and state it seems, until I found Doors CS 5 on TICALC sometime ago. I used it extensively, knowing it was better than MOS because I was programming a lot of little stuff and don't like people using my code, but I liked it. When I found out about this site, I decided to become a member and help contribute. After actually becoming a member, I also started using not only DCS6 after it came out, but also CrunchyOS, along with continuing use of MOS. No person can say that DCS is the king really because it hasn't been around as long or at least the extremely awesome versions have. And even then, Ion was before MOS, making it basically one of the most used shells at the time. There is competition, yes, but nowadays it is the amount someone likes a particular shell that drives it.

Like I said, thats messed up.

Darn.. Really late to post....

[edit] What topic was it? I really want to look it up...
[edit2] Nevermind, found it
When reading the topic I figured it would be about some weird oddball site, and I'd then chime in and say "No, it's omnimaga!"
It's the Village Troll! OMG! Lol.

Not reading the entire post, what does that remind me of---Oh yeah! The time I posted around 30 Pxl-On(s to demonstrate how to make the [2ND] modifier appear. Too bad the guy had already figured it out and said so in an earlier post.

Speaking of not reading posts,

And what do you mean by "worked things out"? Did you already work something out with them? Are you able to post again?


Fine, he freaked, we yelled and argued on Omnimaga and IRC for a while, but eventually the thread was locked, we chatted more on IRC, and agreed to remain friends and mend the argument.

Maybe this is one of the reasons that has subconsciously prevented me from registering to Omnimaga.
Based on this, I'd say that was an intelligent move on your part. Razz
I wasn't exactly planning on joining, but now, I'll check to make sure I join at a peaceful time. Neutral

'Nuff said. Razz
Kerm. I know you won't like my post. I don't want you or others to like it. I just want to improve communication between both forums and give another point of view. for those who want to see more of this flame war (hopefully I won't get banned for saying it is a war) at this link: linky

Ok, I'll start here. You came in that thread and said it would save space and allow more space for game routines and stuff if it was using the DCS GUI toolkit. I agree with you, that was constructive. Great! Smile

I have nothing myself against DCS except it is not game oriented; it would make a better shell API than game shell. But it's a shell that can empower other programs. So far so good. It helps programs like text editors and windows-like programs. Cool! Why not? Smile

Now it's going to be worse.

Even with all the respect I have for your work, you sometimes get a bit far promoting your programs (can't blame you, I do same, see starcalc). It can be seen as a helpful post and as an attacking post because it somewhat implies that it will become the fruit of your work instead of his (read: the honors will be mostly yours, think of the publicity you would have gotten from it, while Halifax would have none of it - even if he did all the hard work on NexGenGS). So basically, it's halfstealing the bread from his mouth. That's how I (read: Fallen Ghost, me, my personal myself) see it.

It's like saying The StarCalc menu would be better off with the DCS GUI. I agree it might be better and save space. But I'll never do it because it's mine and I want it independant of a big (read: big in terms of memory) shell because StarCalc is already eating too much space! And that I want to do it with some special aspects that DCS can't give me (read: it's my program, not yours!). I'd be pissed off if you tried that on me...

KermMartian wrote:
I prefaced my post by "I don't want to start a flame war" and "Feel free to ignore me completely..."

Like saying (that's an example, not my real opinion on your work):

myself, not a real quote wrote:
Careful:I don't want to insult anyone or to make someone sad in this post.

Kerm, your work sucks you should go and hide in your cave because DCS is the worst program ever so f*** off with your offers of putting it in my program. Go to hell and die cause your are the worst programmer ever!

You may have said it was not meant to be harmful, but like I exampled in my quote, it can still be.

That said I did not know what PM Halifax sent out to you, but I'm sure I would have written a post like that if you made that offer for StarCalc. It's my baby. Like yours is DCS. I don't touch yours so don't touch mine.

Oh, and I know the subject is controversial so I made a text copy of it somewhere else.
Kerm, you need to be careful about what you say though. You almost are making me feel that I help admin a site of emos. I don't need that, ok?
No one needs to fell bad, so lets all just stop bashing (on anyforums) and just go about our merry way!

/me hides form the anger of everyone, mostly Kerm
rivereye wrote:
Kerm, you need to be careful about what you say though. You almost are making me feel that I help admin a site of emos. I don't need that, ok?

Right. Again, I think like what xlibman and/or Halifax said (they aren't completely wrong...), Omnimaga isn't just an individual member, or a few members. There is more to Omnimaga than that. Smile

Both sides do have some good points....
Let me allow myself another question: Why are you the only (or nearly) site admin that starts flame wars because of his actions?

Think about it.

No other thoughts attached than the litteral meanings of words, don't search hidden messages.
But that's the thing, it seems to me that people are always flaming _me_. I made a post that was intended as kind and had no malice whatsoever, I received an extremely upsetting PM in response, and I was publicly ridiculed and insulted and blamed for something I didn't do (flame NexGenGS).

In addition, I thought this was all settled, so I was amazed when I got the email from Kevin banning me from Omni.

And you're 100% right, it's not omni, it's Kevin.
[Double-posting to show the title change]

And of course I promote Doors CS! I've spent large, LARGE chunks of 6 years of my life making it. I know some people are put off by the marketing I do, but I'm cool with that, it's just how I am. Smile Trailers and licenses and advertisements are my forte. Cool
Yah, well, advertising, there's no much problem to it (can't say anything on that point)

Like I said before:

NexGenGS is Halifax's my baby. StarCalc is my baby. DCS is your baby. We don't touch yours so don't touch ours.

Even if it's for helping out, sometimes.
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