Right, well, let's get this over with.

I've recently experienced the TI rite of passage that is n00b and I personally believe that this is a process that needs to be improved. Tenfold.

Sure, it weeds out the good from the bad and that's a good thing. But should it be so hard to try and make your first program that is actually good?

You declare yourselves as the l33ts here. But you, being so great and high and mighty, can't forget about the ones below you who are struggling to obtain such greatness. Says Jon Katz over on the ticalc.org newsletter (November/December 2005):



So, here's my wish list. I would like a program that is either online or downloadable that allows you to program for z80's AND 68k's. I have fallen in love with TI-Edit, yet I currently believe that even SC2 cannot match it for Z80's. Not yet, anyway.

I would also like a decent tutorial for once. This tutorial should cover the basics of TI-BASIC for z80's in an understandable form, such as the obsolete Basic Guru site offers. It should also come with introductions to the greater aspects of programming for calculators- the design process, linking, sprites, optimizing etc. And let's not forget the essential part that I believe is complete- the L33T guide to TI-BASIC. As of now, it's THE GUIDE to reference. It's excellent, but for beginning programmers, it can be intimidating. For the optimization part, this is done. But we need the other parts done in an equivalent fashion- the kind only ye kickass l33t's can offer.

This kind of thing is highly needed and guarantees high appreciation. What do you guys think? Anybody going to program something like this?[/list]

I would look around before criticizing the community. TI Freak wrote a great BASIC tutorial.

My personal opinion is that n00bs will always be part of the TI scene. That's all fine and good. It doesn't bother me at all that they exist. As long as they are not bothering anybody or gloating about their skills. I also have no problem when n00bs enter forums and post questions. They need to; how else will they learn? BUT, when they come to forums, not in the search to get better, but in the mindset that they are already perfect, they are annoying as h3ll and they deserve to get their @sses handed to them. That's why you, birdman, had such a hard experience. You should have waited until you improved and learned as a programmer before you started prancing around talking the talk and not walking the walk. We would have had no problem helping you learn the language better if you had come here asking nicely. Instead you came and you bluffed that your group was the greatest programmers out there. We called your bluff, and that's all there is to it. N00bs don't get harrassed because they exist; n00bs get harrassed because they come asking for it!

true, when I came in thinking high and mighty, I looked at the Elite guide and thought, what is this, I don't write like this. Well, looking back, Cemetech is the only reason (or at least the biggest) that my RPG has yet to have a label, and I do not plan on a single one.

please, lets not dig up this particular hatchet.

instead, try to respond to his requests.

The best way to learn is to program yourself instead of whining to us and trying to kiss our asses. There are plenty of good tutorials out there, and the fact that you're complaining to us while asking about them tells me you're just being lazy and want to have skills without putting the effort in.

Thanks for the defense there, Chipmaster. Birdman, have you looked at the list of tutorials on my site? http://tifreakware.calcgames.org/tutorials.htm

For the 83+ section, there are two there that are for beginers to start out with, mine staring out with "How does this thing turn on?" Granted, there are still more to cover, but I am busy, and have not had time to get them on there yet.

I agree there needs to be more information, like what BG provided, which is why I am working on said tutorial list. If you have some suggestions for me to write up some stuff, please feel free to tell me, either here, PM, or on my forum. I am always open to suggestions.

Also, have you looked at my RPG Starter Kit?? I did that because I had several people ask me on forums on how to make an animated RPG, And for the most part, I feel that starter kit serves its purpose. If you would like a link to that, it is: http://tifreakware.calcgames.org/ainfo/1.htm

Again, if you think something should be changed with it, please tell me, I am open to suggestions.

General Points and Misunderstandings:

1. I'm not asking for this for myself, more just insights and discussion. I think it would be good for everyone if there were better development tools. That's all.

2. Ti-Freak has written EXCELLENT tutorials and no one can deny that. Also, as I previously mentioned, the L33T guide is also excellent. But I believe there is no tutorial that combines all of the best features. And some of the most needed categories are missing really good tutorials. The Basic tutorials are good from TI-Freak, the optimizations tutorial from you guys is great, but there's no tutorial that has everything someone might need in one place.

3. Of course n00bs aren't great. I'm not trying to say I'm great. I'm just trying to make a point here, ok? N00bs can have great ideas, but if they are limited in programming, how can they create them? They need utilities and resources if we want new and exciting things.

4. I'm not trying to ask for this for myself, specifically, (of course I'd use them). I'm just trying to point some things out from different perspectives, which is something not everyone can do. I can see why you might be mad, jPez, but I'm just trying to help which should NEVER EVER be a crime in any community.

5. RPG Starter kit and SourceCoder2 are two of the few programs that are actually reaching this goal. I've looked at RPG Starter Kit and while I have no interest in programming an RPG any time soon, it's incredibly easy to point out.

6. Overall, I think everyone can agree that there needs to be a one stop shop for learning, improving, programming and creating. The easier it is for everyone, the higher success rate n00bs and everyone in general can have. Why do you think not all projects are finished? Because they take much too long and there is not enough resources. While hard work pays off, there is nothing against making new tools that make work easier. Why get up and change the channel when you have a remote?

I'm not trying to upset, just help.

I just wanted lo point out http://www.cemetech.net/projects/btutor while we're at it. It's not done, though, and lacks some of the more advanced stuff such as matrices.

Kerm, you've pointed out a prime example. Good intent, good author, good overall, but not enough time. If we team up and make a one stop shop for n00bs, maybe we can have some good outcomes and the n00bs who have good ideas but 0 skills can actually do something with their lives.

If the n00bs had ideas they were really dedicated to, then I assume they would find some way to construct those ideas. I guess part of it really is inspiration.

But let's give them some tools! I'm sure right now there is some jock who knows nothing about computers who wants to make it easier for him to do TASK X on his calculator or has a great idea for a game but just keeps quiet. We could fix that.

Thank you for the compliment. So if I were to take what I have now, and make it go to the next level, and gradually get it so you are basically looking at the 1337 guide, would that work for what you are thinking?

I am already doing this, and I plan on compiling it into a series of "Advanced Tutorials". The link I am reffering to I am basically looking at commands that might be benificial in some to programmers, studying it, and then explaining it in a simplified fashion, and then provide examples.

Then of course, if you have a tutorial that you want posted, please feel free to submit it and I will post it.

If I were you, I'd try to organize an OFFICIAL guide. Combining your stuff, Cemetech's stuff, programs, the now obselete BASIC GURU, into one format and you have got yourself a guide. You would also want to include an introduction to each library, how it's used, and when you might want to use them.

Don't forget the programming part too- although I suspect Kerm might be a better one for that.

I'll think of some tutorials. Keep it up Ti-Freak.

Well, I plan on re-doing the over all layout of the tutorials, and maybe see if I can add some more info to them.

Also, sorry for the links above, but for some reason, they dont work, and there is nothing wrong with them...

Oh, and if you want to create your own version of "You are as dumb as a brick level" and work up, I would host it too. Just beware, I fix grammar, and it would be made to look like my site's layout...

I think the problem with the links is that you put quotes around the url.

Took out the quotes to fix the links. I think Birdman has a good point about needing some kind of complete official guide.

You can't have an official guide -- the only official guide could be issued by TI.

I don't think more tutorials are needed. I never read a single one, yet can program just fine. The TI manual has plenty of info on each and every command, and the language is syntaxically simple.

I think that the problem is that too many n00bs think that there is nothing to it, its easy, and that they can make their kick butt game. Yet they ultamately fail in that they cannot translate their games into various fast algorithms in TI-Basic.

The problem is not the lack of tutorials. The problem is the lack of intelligence.

Oh, and a "one-stop shop" for tutorials would be bad. That means all n00bs would get their info from one source, and never branch out to learn something new.

Very well said Kllrnohj, I agree. In fact I used to do that when I first got into prgm design/prgming and Game design/prgming, its something(I think) we all do. And it is quite disappointing when it happens(as the n00bs stand point) but there needs to be a tutorial that will be an easy to pick up tutorial, not that BASIC is'nt easy to pick up, its that n00bs are always trying to find the easist way, there, well, lazy.

I have no idea what I just said, I just started talking, lolz.

All respect to everyone, but I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have perhaps a central place to link to relevant tutorials, though perhaps not a single set of tutorials because as Kllrnohj said that could cause all kinds of problems.