Does anyone have any ideas on a program that does this.

Installs a hook that when APPS is pressed alone, hides all apps (displays a blank apps menu), but when APPS and another arbitrary key is pressed, outputs the real apps menu.

So, here's what I was thinking. I know that programs can be hidden from the OS depending on what the first character of the program's name is. Doors CS and MirageOS both hide programs by setting the first character of the program's name to $01 through $1B. I was wondering if the Apps list is subject to the same things; has anyone ever done any tests on this?

But then when you output the actual apps menu, you'd have to decode each app name before displaying it. I don't know how hooks work, but maybe you could set one up that displays a blank APPS menu like you wanted. Then you could store a custom APPS menu that gets displayed when you press that key combo, and when the user presses ENTER, the hook would find the app that has that name and run it.

No, because if changing the name of the App would indeed hide it from the OS's display routine, then there would be no point in implementing a custom app display. I believe there was an app that did that (Omnicalc?) and was very buggy about it.

True to Kerm. But, which would be more rock solid, and harder to notice? And what would be easier to code?

And note, that if it doesnt cause additional stress, there should be hotkeys that still load the app even when it is hidden. And there needs to be a way to unhide.

Well, hotkeys are much easier to do, but I think the first thing to do would be to verify what happens when Apps have names that start with odd characters.

ok. lets give it a try.

Well, I double-checked my memory of App storage, and unfortunately Apps are stored in Flash (well, obviously, but there's no RAM symbol table), so I will/would have to delve into Flash writing in order to pull this off. Luckily, with the magic of emulators I can easily edit memory and test this, I'll tell you what I find.

ok. thanks. perhaps, if you get it working, it could be a feature of DCS8. Although you would have to not hide DCS itself. I would assume things could get ugly if you hide DCS while using it...

unless, you could have DCS write a program to hide itself, transfer control to that program, the program hides DCS, then returns control to DCS.

Well, the App name changing was unsuccessful. Here's Graph3 with its initial $47 changed to $07. I'll continue looking through the app header for any other fields that might help...

Wouldn't such a change be irreversible anyway?

Personally, I'd just hook the apps button and have it display a fake 'empty' menu. Then, when the user enters a certain combination, remove the façade.

No, it wouldn't be irreversible, but it would take two page writes (copy app to swap page, clear original page, copy app including fixed name back to original page) in order to reverse its effects.

Hooking the App button sounds like it would be the easiest option, although I'm a bit unclear why that didn't work in the first place for Omnicalc(?) or whichever app had it. Is there a genuine interest in this being made?

I do. Don't know about anyone else.

Is it a case of teachers not wanting applications on your calculator, parents, or friends messing with your Apps? If I were to write this, would people want it as something independent, or something built into DCS?

For now, it can be independent. But if it works and people use it, why not include it in DCS?

As for the 1st question, it is a bit of both, but more so an issue of teachers not finding them.

Fair enough, as long as people won't be using it to cheat, which I have a bit of a problem with. The easiest way to do this would be to make it a separate app, since that makes executing the hook pretty trivial, but it seems ridiculous to waste 16KB for about 300 bytes of code. I could try to do something tricky with archived programs, but that would get destroyed by a garbage collect. I wonder if BrandonW might be able to advise me on a safe area of RAM to put caller code...

Well let me be honest with you. My philosophy on using programs during tests is:

1. I WILL use a preprogrammed routine ONLY if it carries out a series of mathematical calculations that the calc can do normally (ie: the quadratic function), but does it quicker. If it does stuff that my calc can't do without the program (ie: simplify equations, take derivative), I won't use it.

2. My use of "Hiding" routines is limited to keeping any games and projects on calc so I don't have to worry about teachers deleting them.

That's good, I can live with that philosophy. On tests that are open book, I'll make programs ahead of time to apply some of the formulae in the book, which is considered acceptable. On non-open book tests, if I need a program, I'll make it on-the-fly during the test, and usually include the source code in my test booklet for the professor's edification.