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brandonw
Advanced Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 455
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 Posted: 27 Sep 2008 10:29:16 pm Post subject: |
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"most of the time"? So you're confirming that some keys are unresponsive AFTER you reset RAM and before running MirageOS again?
Which "few games" did you play? Is simply running MirageOS enough to cause an issue? After you reset RAM, did you re-install Krolypto or anything else?
I'm trying to get a baseline for how to reproduce this issue, because I'm still very skeptical of anything in software affecting your calculator after you reset RAM, especially unresponsive keys. |
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luby
I want to go back to Philmont!!
Calc Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 1477
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| Posted: 28 Sep 2008 12:10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the time infers that occasionally a key press isn't read (1 out of 100 or so) but it's not nearly as bad as after I run Mirage (2 out of 3). Reinstalling Krolypto doesn't affect the key pressing and I haven't reinstalled xLIB yet.
I think it may be a combination of hardware and software issues. In Mirage for example, XT0n does what Stat does. When I play Phoenix, pressing 5 makes me go right. Mario doesn't seem to be affected though. |
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DarkerLine
ceci n'est pas une |
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 8328
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| Posted: 28 Sep 2008 12:32:35 pm Post subject: |
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For the record, all versions of Phoenix use _GetCSC (not direct input or a MirageOS routine) to read keys. It would be disturbing to say the least for that to be broken.
When you say that "occasionally a key press isn't read" before you run MirageOS, in which situations does that happen? Any examples?
Last edited by Guest on 28 Sep 2008 12:32:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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luby
I want to go back to Philmont!!
Calc Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 1477
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| Posted: 28 Sep 2008 06:08:54 pm Post subject: |
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When I am doing normal OS stuff. Like graphing or running basic programs.
The simulation program that I did do was:
startTmr→A
Repeat Ans=153312
randInt(0,E8
End
Disp checkTmr(A
Needless to say, it took a very long time and I don't think it even finished.
Last edited by Guest on 22 Jul 2010 12:18:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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brandonw
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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 455
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| Posted: 28 Sep 2008 06:23:22 pm Post subject: |
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Please run the small assembly program I posted and see if that makes your problems go away.
The only way MirageOS can even influence your calculator outside of running it is the key hooks, and that program kills them. And a RAM reset would kill them as well. I highly doubt the key hooks are causing your issue. |
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SonicBoom95
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 237
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| Posted: 30 Sep 2008 11:48:12 am Post subject: |
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brandonw wrote: People blame MirageOS for everything, and I don't understand why.
Are you running these BASIC programs of yours FROM MirageOS? Because THAT I could see. But simply having it on your calculator does NOT make it more or less stable.
I'm just making sure you're talking about running them from MirageOS, because people do blame it for completely unrelated things (like saying because MirageOS was on the calculator, it caused RAM to reset when they tried to use randInt( or something). While MirageOS does mess with some system flags, the OS can usually recover from such things if it actually did get into an inconsistent state, and while it does install a couple of hooks, they aren't complicated enough to cause any unusual things to happen.
If someone can show me something that consistently happens just because MirageOS is on the calculator, I'd love to see it and maybe fix it.
[post="127300"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
No, I'm talking about these things happening when I run the programs from the homescreen. Before MOS, there were no problems. After a RAM clear, there are no problems. Now, there are periodic "HOW IS 2+5 AN INVALID DIMENSION? THERE'S NO FREAKING LIST!" problems, solved by RAM clear. I think it happens after I run stuff from MOS. |
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DarkerLine
ceci n'est pas une |
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 8328
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| Posted: 30 Sep 2008 01:03:21 pm Post subject: |
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You might well be running an assembly program from MirageOS that has a bug in it. There are situations in which a system error from the assembly program is not handled, and then the error keeps reappearing at arbitrary points when executing well-formed Basic statements.
For example, I once wrote a program that used an undocumented bcall to group everything in RAM. I decided to get lazy and reasoned that since all programs start with the program's variable name in OP1, I would just use that as the name of the group. Unfortunately, this doesn't quite work: the variable name of a program includes the variable type, so I was creating a group with the variable type of a program (the code, for the record, was AsmPrgmEFC550C9, and requires OS v1.13)
I think that actually worked as far as the backup went, but it suppressed an ERR:DATA TYPE error. This means that certain commands reproducibly throw ERR:DATA TYPE when they should work normally -- one such command is seq(. This doesn't seem to get fixed by anything short of a RAM clear.
Anyway, I expect that there's a way to make an analogous mistake that results in other errors being thrown, but I'd be surprised if it were in MirageOS.
Last edited by Guest on 22 Jul 2010 12:18:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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brandonw
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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 455
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| Posted: 30 Sep 2008 02:04:53 pm Post subject: |
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SonicBoom95 wrote: brandonw wrote: People blame MirageOS for everything, and I don't understand why.
Are you running these BASIC programs of yours FROM MirageOS? Because THAT I could see. But simply having it on your calculator does NOT make it more or less stable.
I'm just making sure you're talking about running them from MirageOS, because people do blame it for completely unrelated things (like saying because MirageOS was on the calculator, it caused RAM to reset when they tried to use randInt( or something). While MirageOS does mess with some system flags, the OS can usually recover from such things if it actually did get into an inconsistent state, and while it does install a couple of hooks, they aren't complicated enough to cause any unusual things to happen.
If someone can show me something that consistently happens just because MirageOS is on the calculator, I'd love to see it and maybe fix it.
[post="127300"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
No, I'm talking about these things happening when I run the programs from the homescreen. Before MOS, there were no problems. After a RAM clear, there are no problems. Now, there are periodic "HOW IS 2+5 AN INVALID DIMENSION? THERE'S NO FREAKING LIST!" problems, solved by RAM clear. I think it happens after I run stuff from MOS.
[post="127440"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
Running stuff from MirageOS and it being MirageOS' fault are two completely different things. If you could give us some sort of details on WHAT you're running, maybe we could track down exactly what it is. |
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SonicBoom95
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 237
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| Posted: 01 Oct 2008 11:49:25 am Post subject: |
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| I will run a BASIC program from the homescreen, and there is about a 1/500 chance that there will be an error that makes absolutely no sense, which is SOLVED BY A RAM CLEAR, AND ONLY BY A RAM CLEAR. This is the basis of my rant against MOS. |
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JoostinOnline
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Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 559
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| Posted: 01 Oct 2008 12:06:27 pm Post subject: |
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SonicBoom95 wrote: I will run a BASIC program from the homescreen, and there is about a 1/500 chance that there will be an error that makes absolutely no sense, which is SOLVED BY A RAM CLEAR, AND ONLY BY A RAM CLEAR. This is the basis of my rant against MOS.
[post="127466"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
This is not the section for rants anyway. I don't understand why you still refuse to answer questions.
1) We already know you ran a basic program, but more code details (or even the program itself if you want to be extra-helpful) is what we want to know.
2) Did you run brandonw's asm program like he asked?
3) Did you run ANY asm programs before the error occured? |
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luby
I want to go back to Philmont!!
Calc Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 1477
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| Posted: 01 Oct 2008 04:28:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I did not use BrandonW's program (thank you anyway), but the problem has resolved itself. I appreciate any comments/concerns and rants abut MirageOs, but I do not think that was the problem as I have used Mirage again with no ill side-effects (yes BrandonW-you told us so). |
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SonicBoom95
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 237
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2008 11:41:07 am Post subject: |
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| It can be any program, I have no other ASM programs, and it's not a problem with keyhooks. Questions answered? |
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brandonw
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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 455
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2008 07:39:57 pm Post subject: |
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SonicBoom95 wrote: It can be any program, I have no other ASM programs, and it's not a problem with keyhooks. Questions answered?
[post="127501"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
No. First off, how do you know it doesn't have to do with keyhooks?
And second, keyhooks are the only thing that persist with MirageOS after exiting it. The only way that it can affect the OS afterward is if another program corrupted it in some way.
I don't know if you're aware, but I'm working on a new version of MirageOS and it's important that I deal with any issues there might be, so if you would please take the time to calmly describe how you would reproduce this issue on a freshly-reset calculator, I will do my absolute best to explain it and fix it.
EDIT: And maybe I missed it before, but did you say what OS version and model calculator you're using?
Last edited by Guest on 02 Oct 2008 07:49:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SonicBoom95
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 237
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| Posted: 04 Oct 2008 02:21:57 am Post subject: |
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Wait. You're the guy who wrote...*facepalm*
I am using a TI-84+SE.
Anyway, when I run MOS to restore my lowercase (gotta love that lowercase), I am confronted, every so often, with an error that makes absolutely no sense that will go away with a RAM clear. A Then will give me a syntax error (sometimes, but if it occurs once it will continue every time). Not a newb. Correct usage of Then. After a RAM clear, it will go away, and likely not come back, even after MOS is run. I note my own argument deteriorating. |
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Galandros
Active Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 565
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| Posted: 15 Oct 2008 08:24:06 am Post subject: |
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Sorry for digging this out but...
When I have only Omnicalc installed, then install another APPS that messes with RawKey, Homehooks and all that and something makes the second installation wrong my BASIC programs become slow and quite irresponsive. Gotos turn from bad to a nightmare. And On break is irresponsive. But in Home screen nothing of this happen...
Maybe your problem is similar to this (but worst xD ). But choosing unnistall from the second APPS or a RAM Clear solves everything.
EDIT: the point is that I have some of your results but during BASIC programs.
Last edited by Guest on 15 Oct 2008 08:25:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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luby
I want to go back to Philmont!!
Calc Guru
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 1477
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| Posted: 15 Oct 2008 06:51:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Which app? xLIB? |
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Galandros
Active Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 565
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| Posted: 16 Oct 2008 07:51:59 am Post subject: |
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luby wrote: Which app? xLIB?
[post="127901"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post] nop. Unit Ops
And the strange part is that I do not know how it in the last times I installed it made this problems after it stopped to work.
When some time ago was totally fine.
Last edited by Guest on 16 Oct 2008 08:04:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thebetter1
Advanced Newbie
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 86
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| Posted: 22 Oct 2008 10:28:06 am Post subject: |
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SonicBoom95 wrote: Wait. You're the guy who wrote...*facepalm*
I am using a TI-84+SE.
Anyway, when I run MOS to restore my lowercase (gotta love that lowercase), I am confronted, every so often, with an error that makes absolutely no sense that will go away with a RAM clear. A Then will give me a syntax error (sometimes, but if it occurs once it will continue every time). Not a newb. Correct usage of Then. After a RAM clear, it will go away, and likely not come back, even after MOS is run. I note my own argument deteriorating.
[post="127550"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
There is actually a Ti-OS bug in If Then loops. If you try to do
Delvar AIf ...
Then
the OS will not detect the Then instruction correctly. This could be causing your problems. |
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Weregoose
Authentic INTJ
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 3976
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| Posted: 23 Oct 2008 01:04:12 am Post subject: |
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thebetter1 wrote: There is actually a Ti-OS bug in If Then loops. If you try to do
Delvar AIf ...
Then
the OS will not detect the Then instruction correctly. This could be causing your problems. Correction: DelVar AEnd is best avoided, as an End may only be detected at the beginning of a line; Then is fine. It's important to test these scenarios before they're handed out, lest they should be misconstrued and spread as rumors.
What would cause the error SonicBoom95 described is if there were an imaginary part emerging from the condition – even if that imaginary part equaled zero:
2+3[font="times new roman"]i
Ans-3[font="times new roman"]i
If Ans
Then
Disp 1
End
While rationally containing only a real part, it's still a complex number in memory. Secondly, 2:Goto would normally jump to the side of the equation containing the error, but since there's only an implied equals true not explicitly written out in tokens as the condition, the interpreter instead wants to jump down to the Then, as described. (What really goes on at Then is a different matter that might illuminate this behavior.) And yeah, a RAM clear would be the way to fix this, as it'd clear the imaginary part from the variable, making things peachy again.
[EDIT]
I apologize for the slight verbosity. Sleepiness deprives me of important communication skills.
Last edited by Guest on 22 Jul 2010 12:17:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SonicBoom95
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 237
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| Posted: 23 Oct 2008 03:13:38 pm Post subject: |
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| There were no Delvars involved, simply a really large If:Then:Else:End. I am at a loss to describe what happened, it might have been the old OS version (only just updated last week). |
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