Programming. Not in .NET
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Programming. Not in .NET
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pugboy


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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 544
Posted: 26 Feb 2008 06:19:43 pm    Post subject:
I am trying to head away from .NET, even if it is extremely useful. Does anyine have a good, easy, programming language that doesn't use the .NET framework (or any framework that requires a separate install for that matter)?

I know of Delphi, but that is it.
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JoeImp
Enlightened


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Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 747
Posted: 26 Feb 2008 06:45:39 pm    Post subject:
C, C++, java, basically anything. As much as microsoft tries to force their barely functional products, apis, and protocols on the rest of the world, you don't have to use them. Should ask specific questions about languages, compilers, etc in the general coding subforum.
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pugboy


Active Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 544
Posted: 26 Feb 2008 07:03:55 pm    Post subject:
I will look in to C and C++. I like how Visual Studio is easy to use, but it isn't very professional to have a program that requires the .NET.
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Taricorp


Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 188
Posted: 26 Feb 2008 09:33:52 pm    Post subject:
I haven't used VS much, but I've liked it for what I've done.

Most of 'my own' projects are done in Python and written in Notepad++. How 'bout I just say I Good Idea python?
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Rebma Boss


Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 116
Posted: 26 Feb 2008 10:20:08 pm    Post subject:
You could also try Visual Basic (for windows)--it's the most popular programming language, and it's one of the easiest. You can get version 1.0 for free, and although it doesn't do as much as 6.0 does, you can consider it a great demo to see if you want to purchase 6.0 or something.

Pros of Visual Basic:
-----------------------
Easy to use, quick to develop for
Great debugging mode
Windows-type programs
At least 75% as great as Visual C++/C++ (Trust me)
Decent resource editor
Organization of files/data easily

Cons
------
Vista compatibility issues when it comes to DirectX programs (I don't know of any others)

As an alternative, there's also Power Basic. I've never tried, but it seems to be tremendous.

Last edited by Guest on 26 Feb 2008 10:26:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pugboy


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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 544
Posted: 26 Feb 2008 10:48:59 pm    Post subject:
VB is .Net though (isn't it? Or am I thing of VB.Net, when there is a separate VB)
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JoeImp
Enlightened


Active Member


Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 747
Posted: 26 Feb 2008 10:52:59 pm    Post subject:
I would highly advise against Visual Basic. Visual basic is absolutely pointless for any serious software development. It is not "the most popular programming language" [tiobe.com], it's slow, teaches horrible syntax, not cross-platform compatible. It's like a bulky, proprietary, scripting language. The only good thing one could say about Visual Basic is the speed at which you can throw together guis. Most other languages have tools available to produce guis just as quickly if you want to be lazy and not code it out, but then since you're not using VB you can actually do other stuff with your application, and have it perform well. Take your effort and put it into learning a real language instead.

This is coming from someone soon to graduate with a degree in Software Engineering. I know 8 programming languages, VB being one of them, and I'll never use VB again. Not for personal use, and not for any professional use.
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brandonw


Advanced Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 455
Posted: 27 Feb 2008 12:33:30 am    Post subject:
I never in my life thought I would be posting a defense to a Visual Basic bash, but here we go.

I hate VB. I hate VB.NET. But I do have a degree in Computer Science (also know several other languages) and I write VB.NET at my job, and it does work quite well there. In an office environment, it produces clean code which new developers that come in can understand very quickly and make changes to the more complicated applications that we deal with. There's nothing we can't do in VB.NET that we can do in another language. The methods are different, of course, but one way or another, you can get there.

At home, of course, I won't go anywhere near it. I'm a low-level kind of guy, which makes it odd that I work with VB.NET, but whatever. Anyway, I guess I'm just posting for the sake of arguing and saying that it's not the devil I used to say it was.

Do C/C++, and stay away from Java.

Hopefully that has upset a fair amount of you. Let me know if I should go on.
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benryves


Active Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 564
Posted: 27 Feb 2008 05:50:45 am    Post subject:
JoeImp wrote:
As much as microsoft tries to force their barely functional products, apis, and protocols on the rest of the world, you don't have to use them.[post="120783"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
Right... :roll:

pugboy wrote:
I like how Visual Studio is easy to use, but it isn't very professional to have a program that requires the .NET.
[post="120784"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
Well, most people will have the .NET framework runtimes installed (either for other applications or will have it bundled with the OS), and it's pretty simple to integrate the .NET framework installer with your application installer.

VB.NET is a nice enough language, but its biggest problem is that it still supports VB6 style syntax and integrated function, which people end up using (and teaching) rather than the slicker, more powerful .NET class library equivalents. Going back to the "professional" aspect, a lot of professional software out there is developed in VB - as brandonw provides an example of. Smile [Though I'd like to point out that you can't access unmanaged memory directly in VB.NET through pointers, which you can in C# - and is occasionally required or useful in P/Invoke].

I find C and C++ monumentally tedious languages (awkward compilation model, manual memory management, "undefined behaviour") to write applications in but both are worth looking into as there are still (at least on Windows) some things that require the use of unmanaged code.

Python is definitely worth a look.
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CoBB


Active Member


Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 720
Posted: 27 Feb 2008 10:34:50 am    Post subject:
.NET by itself isn’t saying much, since there are lots of languages living in that framework. As for what you should choose, it really depends on what you want to do. Python is not a bad choice for a general language, but if you really want to blow up your brains, you should check out Haskell. Wink
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elfprince13
Retired


Super Elite (Last Title)


Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 3500
Posted: 27 Feb 2008 10:47:02 pm    Post subject:
Python is great :)


Cobb: or ML Wink hehe, or Prolog Very Happy

Last edited by Guest on 27 Feb 2008 10:53:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pugboy


Active Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 544
Posted: 27 Feb 2008 11:09:11 pm    Post subject:
I will continue using .NET, but the installer for 2.0 is 10meg when my programs are about 1! It is crazy to see how big your file can get.

I guess I will look into C *sigh*. I am just too lazy to learn it right now Smile
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CoBB


Active Member


Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 720
Posted: 28 Feb 2008 02:45:29 am    Post subject:
elfprince13 wrote:
Cobb: or ML Wink hehe, or Prolog Very Happy

No, ML is not too interesting because it’s not lazy, therefore doesn’t require you to change your approach to programming radically. Prolog is more interesting, but its true power is revealed when you combine it with constraint programming; now that’s some real fun. Smile
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benryves


Active Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 564
Posted: 28 Feb 2008 06:31:46 am    Post subject:
pugboy wrote:
I will continue using .NET, but the installer for 2.0 is 10meg when my programs are about 1! It is crazy to see how big your file can get.
You don't need to bundle the redistributable with your app (though it might be worth it if you release your software on a CD, say). You could add a section to your setup script that checks for .NET runtimes, and if not installed it would then prompt to download and install them for you (here's an example for .NET 1.1 with Inno Setup).
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