Which Vista Edition?
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Which Vista Edition?
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Delnar_Ersike
Lazy H4xx0r


Active Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 578
Posted: 16 Jul 2007 06:03:47 am    Post subject:
So I might be getting a new computer soon (Desktop or Laptop), and I'll probably try out MSVista on it. The question is: which one? I've already narrowed it down to either Basic or Premium Edition, but I still don't know which to get. I know Premium offers much more features for a smaller price increase... but if I were to get Premium, I'd have to spend extra $ for Premium's RAM Guzzling habits (with Basic, I can settle with 512 MB, but I'll have to get 1 GB of I get Premium). So, which one do you guys recommend?
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benryves


Active Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 564
Posted: 16 Jul 2007 06:16:46 am    Post subject:
Feature comparison chart.

The most obviously missing feature is Aero; Vista Basic is rather ugly (I'd go as far as saying that Luna looked nicer) and you're back to the flickery window repainting that you had in previous Windows releases. If you were intending on switching back to the Windows Classic look, I guess that's fine. ;)

I'd say that 512MB isn't even enough to run a lot of apps under XP that happily (notably games, but also image and video editing software tend to chug). 2GB runs Vista Business very nicely.

I'd personally go for Home Premium or Business, depending on which has the features that are more useful to you. I run Business.
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Arcane Wizard
`semi-hippie`


Super Elite (Last Title)


Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 8993
Posted: 16 Jul 2007 06:42:04 am    Post subject:
$100-300 just to try it? When you're buying a new PC with less than 1GB RAM? Are you serious?

Download it for the 30 day evaluation, that's what it's for.

All versions except Ultimate are completely and utterly pointless and even Ultimate is so poorly built I'm not having any of it on my PC. Yes, I've used them all - on all kinds of computers and laptops. I don't know a single person who isn't having so many problems they want to go back to XP. Well, one, and he's a Microsoft junkie who only uses it for MS Word and wouldn 't know a shortcoming in software if it directly caused his laptop to explode in his face.

Now go spend those $$$ on a better PC with more than 512mb RAM.
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benryves


Active Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 564
Posted: 16 Jul 2007 06:58:04 am    Post subject:
Arcane Wizard wrote:
I don't know a single person who isn't having so many problems they want to go back to XP.
On the other hand you're the first person I know who's used it and wants to go back to XP. Wink I haven't had any problems with it*. But, then again, I probably come under the heading of "Microsoft Junkie". :roll:

What problems are you having with it?

* With the exception of Creative's half-arsed Audigy drivers, which work fine but don't let you pick the 96kHz+24-bit mode. Solution? Install the old XP drivers. Smile I don't consider that much of a problem, though.
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Arcane Wizard
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Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 8993
Posted: 16 Jul 2007 07:48:22 am    Post subject:
When I say know and people I mean real people, not myself or noobs on the internet. People who I've sat down and used Vista with to try and work out some fixes. In the end it just comes down to dozens and dozens of failures on the part of Vista's design team.

Give me a random screenshot and I'll point out the huge errors in the designs that they wouldn't even let me get away with on a smple java app in college that's ment to demonstrate compression speeds rather than design. Not that I'd make those mistakes.

That's not even counting the incompatibilities with third party devices like memory card readers or IR devices, proprietary DRM software and directory structure bullshit, the huge failure that are the useability flowcases for configuration / power user use, and whatever else you'll run into if you use it for more than just booting up, checking msn.com in IE7, and typing a report in MS Word XP.

And then there's the two or three noobs at college who actually bought it for their C2D laptops with 2GB RAM and can't shut up about how great the 3d alt-tab is. Just like the whiny first graders with 12" failBooks. Well, untill I show what a shortcut key and some mouse selection can do in a real OS on my 3 year old budget Celeron laptop.

Last edited by Guest on 16 Jul 2007 07:53:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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magicdanw
pcGuru()


Calc Guru


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 1110
Posted: 16 Jul 2007 07:52:08 am    Post subject:
Just my two bits, but...

I got Vista Ultimate (For free! My uncle sells software and he gave it to me :biggrin: ) and installed it as a dual boot with my existing XP. I installed the programs I use regularly, and started doing stuff, and realized I wasn't using any new Vista features. I went back to XP, and I'm still fine with it. So I don't think it's a good idea to get Vista just because it's new, if XP is cheaper and it does what you need and is more stable and backwards compatible.
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lafferjm


Member


Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 169
Posted: 16 Jul 2007 08:36:26 am    Post subject:
I have vista basic on my laptop and I like it.
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benryves


Active Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 564
Posted: 16 Jul 2007 09:08:11 am    Post subject:
Arcane Wizard wrote:
When I say know and people I mean real people, not myself or noobs on the internet.
Well, yes. You don't have a monopoly on human beings. ;)

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People who I've sat down and used Vista with to try and work out some fixes.
I've had exactly the opposite experience - less problems as stuff has been made significantly more intuitive (a good example is the new network control panel).

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Give me a random screenshot and I'll point out the huge errors in the designs
Not sure what you're looking for, so an explorer window, some gadgets and the volume mixer.

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That's not even counting the incompatibilities with third party devices like memory card readers or IR devices
My £1 card reader from Poundland works. I don't have any IR devices, but my oldish Belkin bluetooth adapter and mobile phone work nicely. I haven't had to reach for any driver disks yet. I already mentioned my Creative problems.

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proprietary DRM software
Such as? WMP lets you disable DRM when ripping the first time you insert a CD (like it did on XP). I'm not sure what this DRM menace is. Feel free to enlighten me.

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and directory structure bullshit
I have no idea what you mean by this. I didn't like my data being in C:\Users\Ben (as I have two hard disk drives) so cut and pasted the data from one disk to the other. All of the links automatically updated, as they did on XP. The directory structure arrangement is rather less convoluted than XP's. The VirtualStore directory and settings system works well (and transparently).

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the huge failure that are the useability flowcases for configuration / power user use
Again, I feel they've significantly updated and fixed these things. (I never liked XP's Control Panel system, but Vista's - especially with its search - is easier to use). As far as general usability and flow goes, if you're overwriting a picture, you get a preview, and can choose to not move, to replace or to automatically rename the conflicting files. If you try and copy hundreds of files and one fails, rather than the whole thing failing you can skip or retry as required. Having Command Window Here and Copy as Path built-in (rather than relying on extensions) is another plus-point for power users. I used to run most apps from the Run dialog (yay shortcut keys), and the new start menu's search feature is an extension of that. Breadcrumbs are golden, the easily-customised shortcut bar is handy, the extended stacking and grouping options are useful.

I will conceded one thing - the UAC warning dialog warning you that you are about to receive another UAC dialog is a pretty stupid, but as I only have to encounter it very rarely (having set up directory permissions sensibly) I can put up with it.

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and whatever else you'll run into if you use it for more than just booting up, checking msn.com in IE7, and typing a report in MS Word XP.
Er, nothing in my case. Just a quick list of software I use most frequently (ignoring Vista-provided apps, eg WMP): Opera 9, Programmer's Notepad, MySQL GUI tools, Visual Studio 2005, Media Player Classic, Photoshop 7, VirtualDub, Tortoise SVN, Virtual PC 2007.
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Arcane Wizard
`semi-hippie`


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Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 8993
Posted: 16 Jul 2007 10:35:11 am    Post subject:
benryves wrote:
Arcane Wizard wrote:
When I say know and people I mean real people, not myself or noobs on the internet.
Well, yes. You don't have a monopoly on human beings. Wink
?

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People who I've sat down and used Vista with to try and work out some fixes.
I've had exactly the opposite experience - less problems as stuff has been made significantly more intuitive (a good example is the new network control panel).
Take some HCI classes, it isn't more intuitive. Or find a hardware device it won't recognize and try to fix it, then tell me it's more intuitive and user friendly.

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Give me a random screenshot and I'll point out the huge errors in the designs
Not sure what you're looking for, so an explorer window, some gadgets and the volume mixer.
Checked.

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That's not even counting the incompatibilities with third party devices like memory card readers or IR devices
My £1 card reader from Poundland works. I don't have any IR devices, but my oldish Belkin bluetooth adapter and mobile phone work nicely. I haven't had to reach for any driver disks yet. I already mentioned my Creative problems.
Compatibility problems doesn't mean the entire hardware range doesn't work for any device, it means many more devices fail to work at all or to their full extend than they did with XP for example (often times even linux). Also see: DRM and HDCP.

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proprietary DRM software
Such as? WMP lets you disable DRM when ripping the first time you insert a CD (like it did on XP). I'm not sure what this DRM menace is. Feel free to enlighten me.
That doesn't actually disable the DRM in the software but only in the ripped content from your own CD and only in that one instance where you've disabled it, and WMP media playback and ripping quality sucks though it sucks slightly less if you keep the DRM enabled. Not to mention the insult DRM is just on principle alone.

Last edited by Guest on 16 Jul 2007 10:42:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Arcane Wizard
`semi-hippie`


Super Elite (Last Title)


Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 8993
Posted: 16 Jul 2007 10:42:44 am    Post subject:
Quote:
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and directory structure bullshit
I have no idea what you mean by this. I didn't like my data being in C:\Users\Ben (as I have two hard disk drives) so cut and pasted the data from one disk to the other. All of the links automatically updated, as they did on XP. The directory structure arrangement is rather less convoluted than XP's. The VirtualStore directory and settings system works well (and transparently).
Having a directory structure "C:\Users\Ben" is good but it does not mean it's used well. There are proprietary folders everywhere regardless of it. Imagine a handfull of the biggest applications for linux creating new folders in the filesystem root. That's what it's like.

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the huge failure that are the useability flowcases for configuration / power user use
Again, I feel they've significantly updated and fixed these things. (I never liked XP's Control Panel system, but Vista's - especially with its search - is easier to use).
They've been updated oh yes, but they haven't been improved. Because if you need the search you're already in a faulty situation.

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As far as general usability and flow goes, if you're overwriting a picture, you get a preview, and can choose to not move, to replace or to automatically rename the conflicting files. If you try and copy hundreds of files and one fails, rather than the whole thing failing you can skip or retry as required.
Whereas changing between two taskflows often requires you to do more operations than finishing one of them would take or to start all over.


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Having Command Window Here and Copy as Path built-in (rather than relying on extensions) is another plus-point for power users. I used to run most apps from the Run dialog (yay shortcut keys), and the new start menu's search feature is an extension of that. Breadcrumbs are golden, the easily-customised shortcut bar is handy, the extended stacking and grouping options are useful.
If you could do it before then it's not a plus point is it. The breadcrumbs are useless. The toolbars are inconsistent and poorly used. The search features aren't straight forward enough but immensly annoying, I don't know how they didn't learn from the agents in XP.

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I will conceded one thing - the UAC warning dialog warning you that you are about to receive another UAC dialog is a pretty stupid, but as I only have to encounter it very rarely (having set up directory permissions sensibly) I can put up with it.
You can disable that.


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and whatever else you'll run into if you use it for more than just booting up, checking msn.com in IE7, and typing a report in MS Word XP.
Er, nothing in my case. Just a quick list of software I use most frequently (ignoring Vista-provided apps, eg WMP): Opera 9, Programmer's Notepad, MySQL GUI tools, Visual Studio 2005, Media Player Classic, Photoshop 7, VirtualDub, Tortoise SVN, Virtual PC 2007.
There are many problems programs that aren't on everybody's basic installation, like mobile phone, digital camera, sound card, mouse tools etc. You also haven't tried to optimise services, ethernet use, or page swapping yet.

But enjoy your filesystem drivers security/DRM overhead, prefetching I/O and general I/O write lag, disabling UAC for every user, the poorest mainstream firewall and antivirus protection out there, socket/ethernet connection limits, Windows Live Search, Phishing Filter, DRM in multimedia codec support and license acquisition, content providers homecalling and so on.
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