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DigiTan
Unregistered HyperCam 2
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 4468
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 Posted: 15 Jun 2006 04:28:02 pm Post subject: |
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Driven by a mix of job obligations, curiosity, and the drastic need for some serious OOP bragging rights I decided to dust off the old noggin this summer and venture from the safety of 8-bit programming into 32-bit land. Ah, 32-bit land. If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. Either that, or have psychotic episode. Sometimes they're one in the same. Where was I going with this again?
Ooh right. Well anyway, despite forgetting mostly everything about the language, I decided to go back and finish the Visual Basic 6.0 work I started long long ago. How long ago was it? Well if you remember the Microsoft Breakup, Y2K panic and hanging chads, you're in the ballpark. I was happy to find out VB 6.0 was still current, but realized I sort of missed the boat on this .net stuff and will have to swim after it.
As of this moment I've got Microsoft Visual Studio running and a blank project page. That's a start. I'm going to the bookstore to snatch up a few references to work on over summer 06.
As of now, my questions are:
1. What in the name of highschool football is a .NET, and what can I do with it?
2. Can anyone recommend a good reference book on Visual Basic? Or at least a good series on similar languages?
3. Any online tutorial recomendations?
4. After learning VB, is it easly to pick up other OOP languages like C++?
5. What are the advantages of Visual C++ over VB? (I know you guys are itching to answer this one)
6. What other languages are worth looking into. Right now, I'm interested in basic windows applications for engineering like checksum calculators, hardware interfacing; and maybe small databases for product tracking or access controls.
7. Does anyone actually do VB by hand?
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. |
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IAmACalculator
In a state of quasi-hiatus
Know-It-All
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 1571
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| Posted: 15 Jun 2006 04:48:15 pm Post subject: |
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| You too, eh? I was also planning to pick up VB again over the summer. I can't answer most of your questions, but I can redirect you to the Wiki page for the first question. |
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DigiTan
Unregistered HyperCam 2
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Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 4468
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| Posted: 15 Jun 2006 05:09:26 pm Post subject: |
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Whew! That's cool because I'm probably going to have a ton of high-level programming questions after all the calc ASMing. As I remember, doing GUI's in VB was easier getting in a car wreck but I never got to the point were I could handwrite my own codes and algorhytms and whathaveyou. And I get the feeling I wasn't using the IDE to its full potential. (Or 1/2 potential for that matter)
I might be able to answer my own question on #3. I've been checking out programmers heaven and they've got a fairly comprehensive list of resources for VB. Bonus points for the VB forum too.
Last edited by Guest on 15 Jun 2006 05:09:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DigiTan
Unregistered HyperCam 2
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 4468
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| Posted: 16 Jun 2006 06:12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I just came back from the Barnes & Nobel after buying one of those "SAM Teach Yourself" series books for MS Visual Studio 2005. The CD also contained a copy of MS SQL Server 2005 Express x86. I'm wondering should I install that as well or just focus on VB 2005? |
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c_plus_plus
My Face Hertz
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Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 575
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| Posted: 16 Jun 2006 06:21:59 pm Post subject: |
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I know the answer to #1. I use the Visual Studio.net IDE for my C++. .net is a framwork in wich diferent programing languages can interact in a preset way using the common language runtime. I don't understand fully, but it allows you to integrage VB, C++, and C# all together. I know that the .net compiler forms the program into a special file that is later interpreted by the .net framework for runtime suport.
Edit: runtime, not rutine.
Last edited by Guest on 16 Jun 2006 06:23:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sgm
Calc Guru
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Posts: 1265
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| Posted: 16 Jun 2006 06:34:23 pm Post subject: |
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DigiTan wrote: OOP bragging rights
VB is not OOP. It is event-driven.
DigiTan wrote: Visual Basic 6.0
You are wasting your time. VB6 is obsolete.
DigiTan wrote: As of now, my questions are:
1. What in the name of highschool football is a .NET, and what can I do with it?
2. Can anyone recommend a good reference book on Visual Basic? Or at least a good series on similar languages?
3. Any online tutorial recomendations?
4. After learning VB, is it easly to pick up other OOP languages like C++?
5. What are the advantages of Visual C++ over VB? (I know you guys are itching to answer this one)
6. What other languages are worth looking into. Right now, I'm interested in basic windows applications for engineering like checksum calculators, hardware interfacing; and maybe small databases for product tracking or access controls.
7. Does anyone actually do VB by hand?
1. An attempt to fix the DLL idiocy.
4. After learning VB, you will be at a disadvantage for all other languages of any paradigm.
5. C++ sucks, but you can at least maintain larger projects with it.
6. Java, Perl, Python.
Re. MySQL Server: MySQL Server is third in terms of marketshare of the proprietary databases, and that's not considering MySQL and PostgreSQL. It also will only run on Windows. |
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c_plus_plus
My Face Hertz
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Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 575
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| Posted: 16 Jun 2006 07:18:29 pm Post subject: |
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sigma wrote: 5. C++ sucks, but you can at least maintain larger projects with it.
[post="82433"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
 What do you meen c++ sucks |
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DigiTan
Unregistered HyperCam 2
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Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 4468
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| Posted: 16 Jun 2006 10:47:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, he doesn't suck! 
After reading the opening chapters of the book I'm not 100% it's actually VB 6.0 anymore. Even if it is obsolete, I figured it would be a little wreckless on my part to jump into VB.NET without more VB experience. Plus I'm told there's some reward to knowing how to migrate VB 6 to .NET.
Anyways, it a lot more fun than DOS programming so far. Eventually I want to try and make some kind of inventory database for tracking components I have. That's not too far-fetched for VB is it?
Last edited by Guest on 16 Jun 2006 10:59:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chipmaster
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 601
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| Posted: 16 Jun 2006 11:38:57 pm Post subject: |
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DigiTan wrote: Anyways, it a lot more fun than DOS programming so far. Eventually I want to try and make some kind of inventory database for tracking components I have. That's not too far-fetched for VB is it?
[post="82441"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
That's probably one of the few things it can do well. I took a vb6 course at school this past year, so I might be able to answer questions about the language if you have any. |
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axcho
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Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 555
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| Posted: 17 Jun 2006 12:48:06 am Post subject: |
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| You might want to try C# instead. It is essentially Visual Basic, but with Java syntax. |
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c_plus_plus
My Face Hertz
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Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 575
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| Posted: 17 Jun 2006 01:37:15 pm Post subject: |
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| to me C# just seemed like a realy pumped up C++. I felt It wasn't that popular of a language. is it worth learning? |
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IAmACalculator
In a state of quasi-hiatus
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Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 1571
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| Posted: 17 Jun 2006 06:07:24 pm Post subject: |
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| VB 6.0 is not object oriented. VB.NET is. I'm just an amateur, so I'm having trouble with the jump. I think I sorta get inheritance, though. |
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axcho
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Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 555
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| Posted: 17 Jun 2006 07:46:06 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: to me C# just seemed like a realy pumped up C++. I felt It wasn't that popular of a language. is it worth learning? It's actually not really a "pumped up" C++. I have heard it referred to as "Java for Windows" which I think is a more accurate description. It's Java that compiles to a Windows executable, works with .NET, and has a visual interface creator like Visual Basic does. |
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c_plus_plus
My Face Hertz
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Joined: 30 Jan 2006
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| Posted: 17 Jun 2006 07:49:14 pm Post subject: |
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| C# is like java? |
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Tiberious726
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Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 17 Jun 2006 10:45:16 pm Post subject: |
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c_plus_plus wrote: to me C# just seemed like a realy pumped up C++. I felt It wasn't that popular of a language. is it worth learning?
[post="82473"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
C# is microsoft acting upset that Sun wont let java be their slave
i would recamend C or objetive-C as a language; they actually work, and apeal to the human intution
.Net is frankly a ton of hype, like web 2.0 or DHTML.... i would recamend C using gcc as your compiler |
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c_plus_plus
My Face Hertz
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Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 575
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| Posted: 17 Jun 2006 11:15:42 pm Post subject: |
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Tiberious726 wrote: .Net is frankly a ton of hype, like web 2.0 or DHTML.... i would recamend C using gcc as your compiler
[post="82554"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
After learning about it and using it I would aggree. I'm recently installed fedora and I am learning to use eclipse with gccc (somthing I am excited about) |
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DigiTan
Unregistered HyperCam 2
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Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 4468
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| Posted: 17 Jun 2006 11:56:45 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'll make those the languages to check out after I learn VB. Right now, I've got a naming question:
The text always refers to the code as Visual Basic 2005. Does that mean it's VB.NET or something different altogether? |
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chipmaster
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 601
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| Posted: 18 Jun 2006 12:15:20 am Post subject: |
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Wikipedia wrote: Visual Basic 2005 is the next iteration of Visual Basic .NET, Microsoft having decided to drop the .NET portion of the title. |
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DigiTan
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Joined: 10 Nov 2003
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| Posted: 18 Jun 2006 12:51:02 am Post subject: |
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| Whoo-hoo! Fourty bucks well spent if you ask me. |
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benryves
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 564
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| Posted: 19 Jun 2006 10:28:20 am Post subject: |
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".NET" is the way that Windows is shifting. It is not a 'hype', it is steadily becoming the way Windows works, like it or not.
The framework itself offers lots and lots of base classes, including wrappers around most of the Win32 API. You can also use a technique known as Platform Invoke (abbreviated to P/Invoke) to call methods in unmanaged code (for example, writing your own managed wrapper around a DLL). Basically, you have complete access to existing managed and unmanaged libraries.
This all works together through the CLI (common language infrastructure). This is an open standard, meaning that other people can write their own implementations. The CLR (common language runtime) is Microsoft's own implementation of the ".NET framework", and is what you'll typically be running on Windows (your home PC, on a smartphone (.NET compact framework) or on the Xbox). Thanks to the efforts of the Novell-supported Mono project, your .NET apps will run on other operating systems as well (including Linux and MacOS).
The code itself is not compiled to a native binary, but to MSIL bytecode. This code is JIT compiled to native code at runtime, or can be precompiled to a native binary using ngen.exe - effectively, the code is not slower than native code (theoretically it can run faster, as the JIT compiler optimises it for your hardware). Where you do lose speed is the managed layer that sits between you and the unmanaged code. For example, I believe Managed DirectX is ~2% slower than native DirectX by the time the wrapper translates all your calls.
Visual Basic is currently at version 8, and for that you need VS 2005. You can download the IDE for free without any restrictions - see here. It also leverages the power of .NET 2, which adds a host of important and useful features over .NET 1, especially generics ;)
Microsoft are focusing on VB for their sample code and support, because there are more VB programmers moving on to .NET. As for which language you choose, it is mainly down to personal preference. C# offers unmanaged pointers (unsafe code blocks) which VB doesn't, but the chances of you needing them are remote. All the various languages can all talk to eachother and deal with the .NET framework in the same way. If you want Java-ish syntax, use J#. If you want C-ish syntax, use C#. There's even COBOL.NET and F# (ML) if you feel hard-core, or C++/CLI for the C++ programmers.
My biggest tip is: use the .NET framework, not the VB6 syntax, when learning VB.NET. VB.NET has most (if not all) of the VB6 built-in functions supported (I guess for porting VB6 code), and they are generally pretty limiting in comparison to their more up-to-date .NET counterparts. For example, the horrible VB file reading/writing in comparison to the streams and associated readers that .NET provides.
Oh, and VB6 was object orientated. Just very badly, and I don't think I ever saw much code that exploited it very much. |
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General Coding and Design => Calculator Programming
