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Tiberious726
Advanced Member
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 284
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 Posted: 05 Apr 2006 08:05:28 pm Post subject: |
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Society in general has become dependant on calcuators to do simple calcuatons for them; it is the educational system's fault; it is taught as "who cares why this stuff works out l337 calculators can do it"
Just today a friend who is in alg 2 approached me with a problem involving the instantanious rate of change of a function; that is differential calculus!!! not alg 2; they didn't even cover limits in that class yet they were assigned a portfolio question involving derivatives; the methode in which they were suposed to find the instanainous rate of change was to plug it into their calcuators; this is problematic for both the question and the ethics of it, the question is one in which one has to explain what one is doing ever step; but the real problem is the ethics of it, if people become dependant on their calculators to always spit out the answer for them then how will they learn? a calculator should be a tool to use after one understands the material, not a magic answer producer
opinions? |
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Liazon
title goes here
Bandwidth Hog
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2007
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2006 08:09:06 pm Post subject: |
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| i wish school would teach more about number theory. it greatly helps with doing mental math without a calculator. |
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Plague
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 242
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2006 09:44:55 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. I was very good at math until i got my 83+, there after i have become 99.9% dependent on it. A year ago i got my 89, and it was sooooo nice to have the solver, expander, etc... all its nice functions that i became dependednt on it and its hard having to go back to my 83+ now (my calculus teacher wont let me use 89s on tests  ) |
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elfprince13
Retired
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 3500
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2006 09:48:39 pm Post subject: |
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| my teachers yell at me for mental math cause "they arent psychic" |
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programmer_to_be
Jesus is my Lord and Saviour.
Elite
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 755
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2006 09:57:33 pm Post subject: |
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Ever since I got my 84+, I use it all the time. Just for simple things too. Like today, I was solving a proportion in my head and I knew I was right, but I just had to see it on the calc. even though it doesn't solve them. I had to see it on something. Like I put in:
x/y = a/b |
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Brazucs
I have no idea what my avatar is.
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2006 10:21:34 pm Post subject: |
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Tiberious726 wrote: "instantaneous rate of change before limits"[post="74319"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post] What kind of teacher assigns derivatives before teaching about limits? 
Last edited by Guest on 05 Apr 2006 10:21:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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alexrudd
pm me if you read this
Bandwidth Hog
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 2335
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2006 10:24:15 pm Post subject: |
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My dad said when he was interviewing people for a job at a bank, he asked one of the people:
"What's 6 per cent of $100?"
"Gee, you know... I would need to take out my calculator for that one."
Needless to say, he didn't get the job. |
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Plague
Member
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 242
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2006 10:33:32 pm Post subject: |
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That reminds me of the joke:
"A store sells eggs for 12cents a dozen, a man buys 200 eggs, how much did they charge him?"
Last edited by Guest on 05 Apr 2006 10:33:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brazucs
I have no idea what my avatar is.
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2006 10:54:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Wait... joke?... I'm thinking... that can't be good... |
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alexrudd
pm me if you read this
Bandwidth Hog
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 2335
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2006 10:58:25 pm Post subject: |
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What, did he eat four eggs from one of the cartons or something?
They charge him $2.05 -- 2.5% tax on food items.
Last edited by Guest on 05 Apr 2006 10:58:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chipmaster
Active Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 601
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2006 11:04:25 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that the calculator has become a magical answer finding device for many and there are alot of people that are hooked on them. It's all about our current society's principles. In today's world, it's all about instant gratification. People don't want to bother to solve things in their heads when there is an easier way. Then they gradually become more and more dependent on them. I remember back in 3rd grade I had to memorize the multiplication table through 12, and now that I'm in Calculus there are people that need to put in 6*7 into there calculators. Talk about regression....(hehe  )
Calculators do provide many benifeits to though, and the answer would not be to simply eliminate them. That will never happen in this world. Heck, it's the motto of half of today's public schools that the students should not be educated, but trained for the work environment, an environment that has become hooked on its technology. That aside, calculators are great for tedious calculations after the concept has been taught. For instance graphing an equation is an excellent use for a calculator. Anyone can make a table of values and determine each value, and they will probably never make as accurate a model as a calculator and they will take much much longer. Also calculators are great for statistics. Often statistics have to use large tables of numbers come up with results. Again, anyone can do this, so I feel that using a calculator to do this is great. Also for those huge equations like finding R squared in a regression a calculator can be helpful, assuming that the students can preform elementary algebra operations, which is becoming increasingly more questionable.
My final opinion is that calculators are great tools in the hands of those of us who know how to use them right, but they can become a drug in the hands of us who misuse them. I guess you could compare calculators to a strong pharmaceutical drug. It's incredibly helpful at helping you get better as long as you take the recommended dose. If you use too much it can have very harmful effects.
Last edited by Guest on 05 Apr 2006 11:06:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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elfprince13
Retired
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 3500
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| Posted: 05 Apr 2006 11:42:38 pm Post subject: |
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in order t minimize my dependency on calculators i do as much as possible in my head.
I also am currently reimplementing various functions on my own to understand how they work... |
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IAmACalculator
In a state of quasi-hiatus
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Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 1571
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| Posted: 06 Apr 2006 07:13:18 am Post subject: |
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elfprince13 wrote: in order t minimize my dependency on calculators i do as much as possible in my head.
[post="74383"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
You too, eh? Yes, I only use my calculator to check my answers. |
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elfprince13
Retired
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 3500
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| Posted: 06 Apr 2006 07:43:11 am Post subject: |
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IAmACalculator wrote: elfprince13 wrote: in order t minimize my dependency on calculators i do as much as possible in my head.
[post="74383"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
You too, eh? Yes, I only use my calculator to check my answers.
[post="74400"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
doing trig in my head is hard actually I do that on paper occasionally, but its freaking slow so Im just doing reimplementations of every trig function in Java, PHP and Python to make sure I understand it. |
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JoeImp
Enlightened
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Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 747
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| Posted: 06 Apr 2006 09:11:43 am Post subject: |
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Quote: i wish school would teach more about number theory. it greatly helps with doing mental math without a calculator.
Since I go to a technical school for a technical major/minor, all I'm taking right now is math. Number theory is the source of my sleepless nights. It will drive you insane. Evil, I tell you. |
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Liazon
title goes here
Bandwidth Hog
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2007
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sgm
Calc Guru
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Posts: 1265
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| Posted: 06 Apr 2006 03:48:47 pm Post subject: |
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Brazucs wrote: Tiberious726 wrote: "instantaneous rate of change before limits"[post="74319"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post] What kind of teacher assigns derivatives before teaching about limits?
[post="74358"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
It's entirely possible to differentiate with just algebra and without taking limits (explicitly). |
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Jeremiah Walgren
General Operations Director
Know-It-All
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 1937
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| Posted: 06 Apr 2006 04:18:38 pm Post subject: |
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I work the problem out step-by-step on paper using nothing more than my brain and a pencil (when possible). I don't like using a calculator very much any more. My senior year in high school did that to me, I think. My teacher wouldn't let us use our calculators on any quiz and almost every test. (We had four problems on one test that we could use the caluclator on and even then it was something you could do in your sleep.)
I think that people should be taught how to do things by hand so they know how it works. If the current trend of just using a calculator all the time continues, children will soon be taught how to use the "magic" of calculators. That will then open up the window for superstitions and worship of the Mighty Pi God...
Last edited by Guest on 06 Apr 2006 04:20:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tiberious726
Advanced Member
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 06 Apr 2006 05:35:17 pm Post subject: |
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Plague wrote: I agree. I was very good at math until i got my 83+, there after i have become 99.9% dependent on it. A year ago i got my 89, and it was sooooo nice to have the solver, expander, etc... all its nice functions that i became dependednt on it and its hard having to go back to my 83+ now (my calculus teacher wont let me use 89s on tests ) [post="74345"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]  ) so that curbed me of that (tho before the teacher kicked me out, in my alg 2 class i would use it all the time to find the roots of a polynomial because i was lazy and wanted to write out C programs throughout class on paper, but that was ok because i already knew it all
Brazucs wrote: Tiberious726 wrote: "instantaneous rate of change before limits" [post="74319"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post] What kind of teacher assigns derivatives before teaching about limits? [post="74358"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
thats what i wanted to know; as it turns out what the teacher wanted was for them to graph the function then draw the tangent line and then guess the slope of it at a point (all it said was find the rate of change at a point) but the teacher had said nothing to them about that methode in class
(oh and by the way, the function that she had to find the rate of change was y=3sin[{pi}/6*(x-4)] and i fugrued trying to explain the chain rule and derivatives fo trig functions would be a little much)
chipmaster wrote: People don't want to bother to solve things in their heads when there is an easier way. Then they gradually become more and more dependent on them. I remember back in 3rd grade I had to memorize the multiplication table through 12, and now that I'm in Calculus there are people that need to put in 6*7 into there calculators. Talk about regression....(hehe )
Calculators do provide many benifeits to though, and the answer would not be to simply eliminate them. That will never happen in this world. Heck, it's the motto of half of today's public schools that the students should not be educated, but trained for the work environment, an environment that has become hooked on its technology. That aside, calculators are great for tedious calculations after the concept has been taught. For instance graphing an equation is an excellent use for a calculator. Anyone can make a table of values and determine each value, and they will probably never make as accurate a model as a calculator and they will take much much longer. Also calculators are great for statistics. Often statistics have to use large tables of numbers come up with results. Again, anyone can do this, so I feel that using a calculator to do this is great. Also for those huge equations like finding R squared in a regression a calculator can be helpful, assuming that the students can preform elementary algebra operations, which is becoming increasingly more questionable.
effects.[/u] [post="74380"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
i agree im not saying calculators are bad just that they are misused primarily by those schools you mentioned that don't beleive in educating
Jeremiah Walgren wrote: I think that people should be taught how to do things by hand so they know how it works. If the current trend of just using a calculator all the time continues, children will soon be taught how to use the "magic" of calculators. That will then open up the window for superstitions and worship of the Mighty Pi God... [post="74449"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
just like most of the people in the developed world and the almighty window god.....
this is truely contary to eduacation and should be stopped (the depenance on calculators for even the most basic things) im not saying a calculator shouldn't be used for 50x51 rref-ing but not as a replacement for learing what is Gauss-Jordan elimination and how to do it
Last edited by Guest on 06 Apr 2006 07:37:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fr0stbyte124
Advanced Newbie
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 98
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| Posted: 06 Apr 2006 06:15:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Square roots. |
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Math and Science => Technology & Calculator Open Topic
