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Radical Pi
Advanced Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 455
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 Posted: 05 Feb 2006 04:01:28 pm Post subject: |
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This doesn't need to be answered yet, but it might give the development some positive direction to go in.
I say plugin. |
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bukwirm
Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 233
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| Posted: 05 Feb 2006 05:07:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Compatability with BASIC is definitely needed - just think of all the good (and not-so-good) programs currently in existence. However, not everyone will want to run old programs, so make it a plugin. |
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Radical Pi
Advanced Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 455
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| Posted: 05 Feb 2006 05:34:08 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting diversity among the votes...
I thought everyone would want a plugin, but there are always the *others*... |
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Brazucs
I have no idea what my avatar is.
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 12:55:31 am Post subject: |
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Built-in feature? No way... I vote for no languages built-in!
If it would be a plugin, then the programmers of NewOS (herein "we") wouldn't need to be associated with the plugin at all. They're a one-person-only venture. |
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Rezek
Better Than You
Calc Guru
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 1229
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 07:36:19 am Post subject: |
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Quote: I vote for no languages built-in!
Then how do you expect plug-in's to work? ;-)
Last edited by Guest on 06 Feb 2006 07:36:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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leofox
INF student
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 3562
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 07:53:43 am Post subject: |
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Rezek wrote: Quote: I vote for no languages built-in!
Then how do you expect plug-in's to work? 
[post="69066"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
Anyway, i think it should be a plug in, but it might be difficult to get all the functions to work. Maybe only the most important ones? Because implementing all the math functions would make it.. huge. |
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DarkerLine
ceci n'est pas une |
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 8328
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 09:26:17 am Post subject: |
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So when I use List>matr( in my game, that automatically takes it out of the running for NewOS compatibility?
(and I have used List>matr). |
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Brazucs
I have no idea what my avatar is.
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 09:57:18 am Post subject: |
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| Not unless someone writes a TI-Basic plugin. I proposed an idea of how plugins, languages, and libs could work here. |
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elfprince13
Retired
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 3500
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 10:02:41 am Post subject: |
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personally I think that all of the b_calls should be reimplemented with better coding. Next make it so that things like lower case are always enabled. Finally
make accessing those functions without assembly a plugin--as an improved Basic interpreter that isn't necessarily compatible with previous Basic programs, but that is similar. then you can have a Java utility for people who want to run old basic programs that will convert the syntax.
Finally make FastCircle be the default. |
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Brazucs
I have no idea what my avatar is.
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 10:08:56 am Post subject: |
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Rezek wrote: Quote: I vote for no languages built-in! Then how do you expect plug-in's to work? [post="69066"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
Asm, which I suppose would have to be built-in...  I thought it was a gimme that asm needs to remain the same as TIOS. Would that arise legal issues?
leofox wrote: Assembly? That doesnt have to be 'built in'.[post="69067"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post] Please see above, lol.
I recant my previous statement and now reaffirm that ASM should be the only "built-in" language.
Last edited by Guest on 06 Feb 2006 10:15:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DarkerLine
ceci n'est pas une |
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 8328
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 04:52:59 pm Post subject: |
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elfprince13 wrote: personally I think that all of the b_calls should be reimplemented with better coding. Next make it so that things like lower case are always enabled. Finally
make accessing those functions without assembly a plugin--as an improved Basic interpreter that isn't necessarily compatible with previous Basic programs, but that is similar. then you can have a Java utility for people who want to run old basic programs that will convert the syntax.
Finally make FastCircle be the default.
[post="69077"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post] You're thinking of this as more of an improvement of the old OS. It's a NewOS.
Oh and I'm sure the circle drawing code could be rewritten to be much faster than what it is right now. |
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Brazucs
I have no idea what my avatar is.
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 04:58:10 pm Post subject: |
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Also, before it comes up, should ASM also be dummied down or kept as is?
I vote for the latter; better yet, have it improved: there's no need to dummy it down.
So, in order to "build in" ASM we need to include ti83plus.inc?
Could there be legal issues with commenting out bad stuff and writing our own, improved bcalls in ti83plus.inc? Speaking of legal stuff, has TI ever done anything? Any Cease and Desist letters or the like?
Last edited by Guest on 06 Feb 2006 05:34:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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elfprince13
Retired
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 3500
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 05:17:46 pm Post subject: |
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Brazucs wrote: Also, before it comes up, should ASM also be dummied down or kept as is?
I vote for the latter; better yet, have it improved: there's no need to dummy it down.
So, in order to "build in" ASM we need to include ti83plus.inc? Could there be legal issues with commenting out bad stuff and writing our own, improved bcalls in ti83plus.inc?
Speaking of legal stuff, has TI ever done anything? Any Cease and Desist letters or the like?
[post="69107"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
there was the issue with detached solutions, and I think there was somebody else here who got yelled at.
EDIT:
and you are going to have to rewrite all the bcalls or old Asm programs wont work.
Last edited by Guest on 06 Feb 2006 05:24:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Radical Pi
Advanced Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 455
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 05:33:14 pm Post subject: |
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elfprince13 wrote: ...Next make it so that things like lower case are always enabled. Finally...
[post="69077"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]
Couldn't we design an entirely new set of characters?
I don't mean font; a new character set... |
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Brazucs
I have no idea what my avatar is.
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 05:36:12 pm Post subject: |
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We could... we'd have to have it resemble TIOS's though so people don't get freaked out by a too-new look.
Let's all post and example of what we think a Hello World program should look like in the NewBasic plugin. It seems that this plugin will be coded along with the OS, which will be good in order to test the "pluginability" of the OS.
My NewBasic HelloWorld. Stuff in bold is the stuff we need to code into the OS:
Quote: [font="Courier"]PrgmName(Hello World); ReqLangs(); UseLangs(NewBasic); AltLangs(TI-BASIC_byBraz); Args(Times); Libs();
#LANGUAGE NewBasic
ClrFullScreen //there could be others like ClrHalfScreen 1 for clearing the top half of the screen or ClrScreen Vertical, 1, 24 for clearing the screen vertically from pixels 1 to 24
For null, 1, ArgTimes //always wanted to do this: not have to waste a variable. This could even be replaced by For ArgTimes, which automatically counts a null variable from 1
Disp "Hello World", 2 //again, 1 is big letters, 2 is small
EndFor //Specific Ends are crucial and will End lots of confusion. I love the 89.
EndExec //might not be necessary
#ELSELANGUAGE TI-BASIC_byBraz //as in, if NewBasic is not installed
#ARGVAR Times, X //let's say TI-BASIC_byBraz doesn't support arguments. This built-in function saves ArgTimes into variable X
ClrHome
For B, 1, X
Output(1,1,"This program is being limited by your inability to be on top of things and install NewBasic.
Disp "", "BTW, Hello World
End
#ENDEXEC //this might be a bit more useful
Header Stuff:
[font="Courier"]PrgmName(Hello World); = Program Name
ReqLangs(); = Required Languages
UseLangs(NewBasic); = Languages used. May have an alternate
AltLangs(TI-BASIC_byBraz); = Alternate languages.
Args(Times); = Arguments. Saved as Arg[name]
Last edited by Guest on 06 Feb 2006 05:47:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chipmaster
Active Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 601
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 05:57:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I think that if a new Basic language were to be created, the variables shouldn't be constricted to A-Z, and those others, but should be full words, allowing for as many variables as memory can hold. And while we're at it, I'm sure it wouldn't be too much trouble (well not as hard as some other things) to make them have user choosen data types be it integer, single, double, byte, string....Just my input. Other than that, a langauge that more closely replicates Visual and/or Q Basic would be more to my liking. |
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Radical Pi
Advanced Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 455
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Rezek
Better Than You
Calc Guru
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 1229
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 06:22:06 pm Post subject: |
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Brazucs wrote: Also, before it comes up, should ASM also be dummied down or kept as is?
I vote for the latter; better yet, have it improved: there's no need to dummy it down.
What 'imrovements' do you have to assembly, the only thing you can change is b_calls 
Quote: So, in order to "build in" ASM we need to include ti83plus.inc?
Could there be legal issues with commenting out bad stuff and writing our own, improved bcalls in ti83plus.inc? Speaking of legal stuff, has TI ever done anything? Any Cease and Desist letters or the like?
*points at OS Replacement thread at DS for the 1000'th time*
Also, Brazucs: Do you even know assembly  . Because (a) You can't modify assembly or change it. An OS *has* to be written in it, and Assembly is already built-in as it's hardware (not really, simple explanation), you just need something to call it (execute it). Ti83plus.inc is just a bunch of equates, so "building" it in in the sence of executing TI-OS asm would mean replicating BCalls and the entire interface.
Quote: Could there be legal issues with commenting out bad stuff and writing our own, improved bcalls in ti83plus.inc?
If you wanted to "comment out bad stuff" you'd have to be using the TI-OS source, and THAT would be illegal. Nothing is stopping you from writing your own routines.
Seriously, this isn't meant offensively, but- Learn assembly so you know what you're talking about. |
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Brazucs
I have no idea what my avatar is.
Super Elite (Last Title)
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 06:32:06 pm Post subject: |
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Rezek wrote: *points at OS Replacement thread at DS for the 1000'th time*
Also, Brazucs: Do you even know assembly . Because (a) You can't modify assembly or change it. An OS *has* to be written in it, and Assembly is already built-in as it's hardware (not really, simple explanation), you just need something to call it (execute it). Ti83plus.inc is just a bunch of equates, so "building" it in in the sence of executing TI-OS asm would mean replicating BCalls and the entire interface.
No, I don't... nevermind my ramblings about asm I thought it was somehow changeable when leofox said: leofox wrote: Assembly? That doesnt have to be 'built in'.
I won't try to help with that stuff anymore, then. I'll stick with concept.
Last edited by Guest on 06 Feb 2006 06:35:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Radical Pi
Advanced Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 455
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| Posted: 06 Feb 2006 06:39:41 pm Post subject: |
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I know how to move an 'X' around the homescreen in ASM, which is pretty much all I know in Basic also.
I'll test and be here for moral support XD |
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