TheStorm wrote:
Comic, for you uses Software Raid, or Intel FakeRAID would work fine, the cost of hardware raid for your setup is no where near worth the costs involved IMO.
Yeah, there's no reason not to use software RAID at this point. Does that motherboard perhaps even have a built-in RAID controller? As far as Bluetooth goes, you can get tiny USB bluetooth adapters for $0.99 plus $3 shipping on eBay from random Chinese companies. With a box that monstrous I don't think you need to worry about running short on USB ports if you use one for Bluetooth.
comicIDIOT wrote:
Sweet, I like how that sounds. I'll likely ditch the SSD's and keep the 6-Core or upgrade to 12-Core; 120GB's isn't all that important when I easily take 4GB's of photos a session which would last me a few months, 330$ for four months of photos is a bit steep, especially when I delete all the un-rated/bad photos after six months.

One thing I find lacking from that is Bluetooth. But it shouldn't be hard to add that in there - without sacrificing USB slots.

Now, I found a RAID card for 15$ and 565$, and one of the differences that I'm vastly curious over is that the 565$ sports "Single Disk." I did some Googling but was only able to assume that it takes data from one disk and copies it to two disks, requiring three disks. Yes?

And truthfully, I've been eyeing RAID for a while. But the 600$ price tag from Apple was off-setting. Is it possible to setup to RAIDs within a system? Such as: Drives A & B are read as a single Drive, E. Drives C & D are read as a single Drive, F. Because that'd be awesome for both photo and client data, my Document/OS drive won't need RAID as much as it'll need an external back-up. And with the Money I'd be saving here I might as well buy a 10TB external - or so - to back-up all my on-computer data.

RAID Cards (somehow, [url] didn't work.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007607&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=1&page=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&CompareItemList=410|16-132-001^16-132-001-TS,16-116-072^16-116-072-S01


For the two sane builds I proposed (the two i7 builds), the motherboard has built in RAID. Likewise, the motherboard has 8 rear USB ports in addition to the front USB headers, which adds 4 more (and you can optionally run 2 of those to the back if you wish). So a USB bluetooth adapter won't be a problem. It isn't an Apple product, after all, so it's got plenty of ports Razz

Also, quit focusing so intensely on the number of cores. It won't do nearly as much as you think it will. Truly, honestly, in Photoshop you won't tell the slightest difference between a quad core and 24 cores. You will, however, notice a difference in core speed. Faster cores >>> More cores.

Quote:
Here's where I'll stir more than I have with this entire post. The Mac OS is coded with all the drivers needed into the OS, and you know it'll work because the OS is coded to the hardware and the hardware is made to the OS.


It doesn't work like that *at all*. You are falling victim to Apple's marketing in a huge way. The hardware isn't made to the OS at all. Apple uses standard, off the shelf parts. Apple doesn't even write the drivers. The OS isn't written for the hardware, either. Everything you just said about OS and hardware applies identically to Dell, or HP, or any other OEM. The difference is that Windows' drivers are generally superior. In the case of GPU drivers, for example, Windows' drivers are crazy far ahead. Nvidia and ATI have finite reasources. You think they are going to spend more time and effort on OSX's drivers than Windows' drivers? Of course they aren't. Their focus is first and foremost on Windows.
On Engadget today I noticed the release of a motherboard with extremely similar specs to the one you quoted for your "insane" build, perhaps even the same one? As Kllrnohj says, the reason Mac appears to "just work" without needing any extra drivers is that they include the drivers for the hardware and only need the drivers for the limited subset of hardware they use, not because they have custom hardware for their computers or custom drivers for their hardware (other than, of course, making them work on OSX). Razz
Sometimes, less is more. I would just opt for a less resource-intensive operating system, and more power-efficient hardware.

When programs begin to bloat, the solution is not to rush out and buy expensive hardware upgrades - just use programs that aren't bundled with superfluous GUI effects and other frills.

I can't understand why people want to fill their HDs with bloated software suites that likely run $1,000+ per single-user license, then coax themselves into buying expensive hardware upgrades solely to run said software. Just because something is huge and expensive doesn't mean it's better than the alternatives. This entirely depends on your practical needs. You might do just as well to install a Linux distribution that uses LXDE, and run some lightweight graphics suite to handle all of your designs; and this wouldn't require that you had anything greater than a Pentium III.
KermMartian wrote:
On Engadget today I noticed the release of a motherboard with extremely similar specs to the one you quoted for your "insane" build, perhaps even the same one? As Kllrnohj says, the reason Mac appears to "just work" without needing any extra drivers is that they include the drivers for the hardware and only need the drivers for the limited subset of hardware they use, not because they have custom hardware for their computers or custom drivers for their hardware (other than, of course, making them work on OSX). Razz


Most X58 boards have similar or the same specs. And there are a *ton* of X58 boards.

Zera wrote:
Sometimes, less is more. I would just opt for a less resource-intensive operating system, and more power-efficient hardware.

When programs begin to bloat, the solution is not to rush out and buy expensive hardware upgrades - just use programs that aren't bundled with superfluous GUI effects and other frills.

I can't understand why people want to fill their HDs with bloated software suites that likely run $1,000+ per single-user license, then coax themselves into buying expensive hardware upgrades solely to run said software. Just because something is huge and expensive doesn't mean it's better than the alternatives. This entirely depends on your practical needs. You might do just as well to install a Linux distribution that uses LXDE, and run some lightweight graphics suite to handle all of your designs; and this wouldn't require that you had anything greater than a Pentium III.


Frankly, you're an idiot. A PIII will never be able to edit 10 megapixel images in a fashion that could be considered anything close to usable. More features is not bloat. A bigger install is not bloat.

He wants Photoshop CS5 because Photoshop CS5 is the best, by far. GIMP is a tiny little spec in Photoshop's rear view mirror.

Also, FYI, raw images are *big*. Photoshop is tiny compared to a couple hundred RAW images.
I'm not all for big leagues. I install OpenIffice on all my computers. But yes I need more in terms of hardware because of Photoshop and 20MB 18MP 14bit depth image files that will need to be processed (currently dealing with 10MP 9MB raw files, 12bit depth.)

CS5 will cost me 80% less since I'm a student

I agree with power efficiency, tge Mac Pro is Energy Star 5 certified, but that Likely has to do with the recyclibikty of the mac pro more than power consumption.
*recyclability perhaps? Not positive. Anyway, for what I do GIMP is more than enough, and a good 50-75% of the features of Photoshop would be wasted on me. Therefore, my biggest graphics needs are gaming (admittedly on UT2004, which runs on anything, and UT3, which is still not too insane), AutoCAD editing (which is nothing to sneeze at), and Freebuild (ha). I agree with Kllrnohj that a PIII is not going to cut it for you, but neither do I think the $5K Mac is the way to go.
KermMartian wrote:
I agree with Kllrnohj that a PIII is not going to cut it for you, but neither do I think the $5K Mac is the way to go.


Exactly, hence the $1900 build I posted, which would rock. I should know, I'm running almost that exact rig myself Wink
Kllrnohj wrote:
KermMartian wrote:
I agree with Kllrnohj that a PIII is not going to cut it for you, but neither do I think the $5K Mac is the way to go.


Exactly, hence the $1900 build I posted, which would rock. I should know, I'm running almost that exact rig myself Wink
I'll have to consider something along the lines of that when it comes time to upgrade my desktop, which will be in the not-terribly-far future.
I look forward to playing ut3 on the new rig!Wink
comicIDIOT wrote:
I look forward to playing ut3 on the new rig!Wink
First you need to get it and put it together, then you can worry about what you're going to play on it. Smile What kind of time frame are you looking at? I assume you're going to go for something closer to the sane build?
KermMartian wrote:
comicIDIOT wrote:
I look forward to playing ut3 on the new rig!Wink
First you need to get it and put it together, then you can worry about what you're going to play on it. Smile What kind of time frame are you looking at? I assume you're going to go for something closer to the sane build?
It'll likely be mixed. As for the time frame. No real ETA, yet. I really need to upgrade my camera before my 400D dies so that's my first priority.

After that, about ten to fifteen weeks to get a decent amount of money. Given that I don't decide to buy a second Canon 7D at 1,5k. I'm literally saving up for two at the moment, so...

The highly loose time frame doesn't include the money I had already worked for if I only buy one 7D.


+30Minutes: Regarding Cameras, Thinking about a 7D (1,3k min) and a T2i (760$ min). But that poses a few problems though, I could work around those P:
All right, sounds good, although you lost me a bit with all this talk of cameras and their surprisingly high prices. Razz
Kllrnohj wrote:
Frankly, you're an idiot. A PIII will never be able to edit 10 megapixel images in a fashion that could be considered anything close to usable. More features is not bloat. A bigger install is not bloat.

He wants Photoshop CS5 because Photoshop CS5 is the best, by far. GIMP is a tiny little spec in Photoshop's rear view mirror.

Also, FYI, raw images are *big*. Photoshop is tiny compared to a couple hundred RAW images.


Who said anything about The GIMP? While it's a good photo-editor, there are other graphics suites available for *nix. I'm indicating that a person should consider their practical needs over what appears to be the most robust option available to them. I see too many people fall victim to the misconception that bigger = better. This is only true if your practical needs require something so robust. If you're purchasing software that's bundled with features you'll never even know how to use, then it's a wasteful investment. While Photoshop CS5 may be a good graphics suite on its own merit, it's also impractical for everyday purposes, and quite expensive for a single license. Unless you're doing professional, industry-standard photo-editing, why would you invest in such a thing, much less the resources to meet its requirements?

If you can afford such expensive licensing, then by all means - throw your money away for no reason; then proceed to do it all over again every time an update ships out. If you want to learn the hard way, then go right ahead.
Zera wrote:
Who said anything about The GIMP? While it's a good photo-editor, there are other graphics suites available for *nix. I'm indicating that a person should consider their practical needs over what appears to be the most robust option available to them. I see too many people fall victim to the misconception that bigger = better. This is only true if your practical needs require something so robust. If you're purchasing software that's bundled with features you'll never even know how to use, then it's a wasteful investment. While Photoshop CS5 may be a good graphics suite on its own merit, it's also impractical for everyday purposes, and quite expensive for a single license. Unless you're doing professional, industry-standard photo-editing, why would you invest in such a thing, much less the resources to meet its requirements?
I've spent far more time with CS4 than any other photoeditor; whenever I use GIMP, I have to re-figure-out how to do a task that I can pretty much do blindfolded in Photoshop. While CS5 is expensive, it is certainly well worth the cost (at least for students) for its capabilities as well as because of our/my familiarity with it.

Quote:
Unless you're doing professional, industry-standard photo-editing
...as far as I understand, he sort of is.
rthprog wrote:
I've spent far more time with CS4 than any other photoeditor; whenever I use GIMP, I have to re-figure-out how to do a task that I can pretty much do blindfolded in Photoshop. While CS5 is expensive, it is certainly well worth the cost (at least for students) for its capabilities as well as because of our/my familiarity with it.
Yeah, but that's familiarity. I have the exact opposite experience with GIMP/Photoshop: because I can do everything blindfolded and very fast in GIMP, Photoshop feels cumbersome, awkward, and non-intuitive.

rthprog wrote:
Quote:
Unless you're doing professional, industry-standard photo-editing
...as far as I understand, he sort of is.
Yeah, I was going to mention that too. Very Happy
Zera wrote:
Who said anything about The GIMP? While it's a good photo-editor, there are other graphics suites available for *nix. I'm indicating that a person should consider their practical needs over what appears to be the most robust option available to them. I see too many people fall victim to the misconception that bigger = better. This is only true if your practical needs require something so robust. If you're purchasing software that's bundled with features you'll never even know how to use, then it's a wasteful investment. While Photoshop CS5 may be a good graphics suite on its own merit, it's also impractical for everyday purposes, and quite expensive for a single license. Unless you're doing professional, industry-standard photo-editing, why would you invest in such a thing, much less the resources to meet its requirements?

If you can afford such expensive licensing, then by all means - throw your money away for no reason; then proceed to do it all over again every time an update ships out. If you want to learn the hard way, then go right ahead.


Next time, read the thread. You just look like a moron because ComicIDIOT *IS* doing a professional build because he *IS* (or wants to be) a professional.

You also clearly don't have any clue what is involved in pro photography and editing, because the GIMP is by far the best free option for that, and it sucks compared to Photoshop. There aren't any other free alternatives. We aren't talking about cropping/rotating photos you took with your point and shoot.

And when it comes to hardware, bigger/faster is *ALWAYS* better. Why settle for crap hardware if you can afford the good stuff?
Regarding RAID, is it possible to RAID two sets of drives separately with one card or software RAID?
comicIDIOT wrote:
Regarding RAID, is it possible to RAID two sets of drives separately with one card or software RAID?


You mean like 2 drives in RAID 0 with a different set of 2 drives in RAID 1? You can definitely do that in software RAID, but software RAID sucks balls, avoid like the plague. Doing it with a RAID controller would depend on the controller. I believe the RAID controller on most x58 boards can handle that just fine, and (good) dedicated cards can handle that as well.
Kllrnohj wrote:
You mean like 2 drives in RAID 0 with a different set of 2 drives in RAID 1? You can definitely do that in software RAID, but software RAID sucks balls, avoid like the plague. Doing it with a RAID controller would depend on the controller. I believe the RAID controller on most x58 boards can handle that just fine, and (good) dedicated cards can handle that as well.
Basically, two arrays. One for Drive A that has redundant copies on Drive C (even D) and one for Drive B with copies on Drive E and possibly F. Two Drives for each set of Data should be enough, though.

I don't plan to do Software raid, If I need to spend 300$ for a card to allow two RAID arrays, then I'll do that.
  
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