I read, and pretty much agree. Sounds mostly like Gentleman's Rules, so I'm cool.

Also, yay, first post in years.

Could we keep the spawn protection the same but also allow horse glitching and home restrictions?

Your fellow server mates would have to agree to it. If they don't there's still a possibility I'll implement it anyway. I'll look into it.

1.) Umm, what do you mean by direct or indirect?
2.) I'm glad you added explosive *Cough Post-Shoeblox Cough*
3.) Well, of course stealing is Ok, it's a PvP server.
4.) Fine with me, what incident brought up this change in the rules?
5.) Duh.
6.) Does spawn camping include the world spawn? (/spawn)
7.) I think this is a good rule.
8.) Good rule too.
9.) Is each strike system separate from each other? For example, if I spawn camp 2 times and spam 1 time, will I get perma-banned or just temp-banned with 2 warnings?
Also, don't ask why, but we've had incidents where KermMartian has considered banning me. Is this court system whatever the admins want it to be, or U.S.A. related, or communist, or dictorious, or what?
1 final thing, can you add another rule saying "The possible rules of this server are not bound or limited by what is above" *cough cloud, budderking permaban incident cough*

That reminds me, the stolen credentials thing is another rule that may want to be added to the list

Regarding the issue of horse glitching--
I have done testing with pyrot3chnic on stone walls with an efficiency 5 pickaxe, subject to haste II conditions. If it is true that lag is required to perform the glitch to higher tiers, then we should get varying results, thus proving the lag involvement. I was able to break very easily through 4 block walls when I tested it. Pyro then tested it, and found a very difficult time breaking through 3 blocks. 2 block thickness was found to be only partially successful for him. He has tested under multiple conditions, including things such as optifine, and as expected, do no affect his results. This shows that 2 different people get different results, therefore making higher-tiered horse glitching unfair via connection lag.
Because of this, if horse glitching were to be allowed, it should be kept to the originally proposed 1-thick wall, since that is not based on connection in theory.

I personally do not have too much of a problem with horse glitching, however believe it would be better if it were banned in general. Towny was programmed to give protection if you built protection, and horse glitching effectively neutralizes the protection, and forces you to spend much more time buffing up your walls with X thickness to prevent such things from happening. If it is allowed, I would be okay with people only doing 1 block, and I personally wouldn't hold myself back from using it, since it would be a disatvantage to not use it at that point.

I don't see how it would be unfair if anyone can put strain on their connection simply by loading a YouTube video or something similar.

Thanks for that Charles! I agree with you Frozen regarding the account credentials.


In harsher words, a direct attack would be "Hey, comic is a loser!" while an indirect attack would be "Hey losers!" Since comic is the specified victim and in the second example there is no real intended recipient. But I think that should be an implicit understanding of the rule itself and not something that I should need to explicitly imply.


Horse glitching, mostly. I put it in because if I allow horse glitching what other forms of lag-enabled glitching do I allow (either now or in the future)? I figure it's better to just ban it all.


No, only town and home spawns. World spawn is large enough (and players are immune from PvP) that you can exit on any number of paths to avoid an attack if someone is waiting outside of World Spawn.


As I said on the first page, I was thinking warnings could be given for multiple violations: warning for cursing, warning for griefing, warning for excessive camping, etc. Then after enough warnings a temp ban then a ban. Or if a user repeats an action they were warned against, it jumps right to a temp ban (Two curse words in a row, either same day or with a period of time between).

And to clarify, it wouldn't be you've gone through all 7 first strikes here's your first second strike. It could be "You have received 3 first strikes, here's a second strike" and the next breach of the rules by the player will earn the third strike. Also, strikes are against the players and not the accounts. So if you have two accounts the strikes would count for both.

Here's the updated rules!



Horse glitching is still banned in these rules but I've put in a "cool down" period for town kills. The underlines have been removed because basically everything has been revised (and it makes my life easier when I do the BBCode to HTML conversion on a website script). Because I was gone most of the day I'll extend the deadline to tomorrow afternoon, I'll be home tomorrow

Please discuss.

That's a form of induced lag, which is a direct violation of rules that are already in place. I can simply purposefully choose to induce lag by opening 20 Youtube tabs, and horse glitching to my full will if that be the case. Any act of intentionally creating lag to perform a series of actions, is by definition, induced lag (taking advantage of lag).

Rules v1.9.0500:

By "explosions from creepers or by you within your own plots", do we mean that general explosions from creepers anywhere on the map are acceptable (which means you can also cause creepers to explode on someone's property), or do we mean that intentional creeper explosions and TNT explosions are restricted to our own plots only? TNT explosions I know are for constructive/destructive use on our own plots only.


So to make it very clear, we are allowed to still "campout", but we are explicitly not allowed to kill within 60 seconds unless we are attacked first?
Also, because some other players are unaware of the time of a kill, how does it apply to others following you killing someone? And if you team up with a few other people, basically the rule would apply to them too since they possess the knowledge?


I favor this; thank you. Also, should we consider that all future instances of taking advantages of glitches and general actions that go against implemented game mechanisms, are also against the rules? For instance, assume horse glitching was not discovered, and this rule was in place. Horse glitching would then be bannable without being explicitly written, because it neutralizes the purpose of Towny protection. (credit to AHelper for the idea)

• You bring up a valid point with Rule 2 and I'm not sure how to address that at the moment. I'll think on that and get back to this.
• Regarding Rule 7 and part one of your reply, yes. Camping out is still okay. Regarding part 2, that's another valid point. I'll extend that rule to include witnesses or participating party members.
• That is correct. If there's a piston glitch, that's banned. Now, if a glitch can occur without lag then that isn't covered by this rule.

IMO:

@FrozenFire49 and @CalebHansberry, you are both complaining that you have bad connections and the rules should be changed to specifically accommodate you. These are your problems, not the server's.

As for your complaints about not being able to be an effective mayor, FrozenFire49, you chose to be a mayor. You would have known about your inability to play Minecraft connected to this server without lag or loading problems, a better mayor could have been selected. If these rules went into affect as-in, you would be taking advantage of client-based lag (ref. "Taking advantage of lag, whether client or server side, is not okay.").

I would propose to expand "Hacks, cheats and X-ray are an instant ban." to include disallowing the exploitation of bugs, glitches, defects, or security vulnerabilities in the server or used plugins. This would prevent someone from discovering and using an exploit to, say, change the permissions and properties of Towny plots as an outsider. This removes the need for “implicit rules”, such as lag banning horse glitching. There are bugs that require absolutely no lag and are bugs in the mods or the core of the server.

@comic, any reason you want to ban peredur?

It is quite easy to keep track of a 10 second TP time, especially since a mod takes care of this. 60 seconds, that would be challenging to accurately keep track of without keeping a clock near-by. Be prepared to get “X hit me after 59 seconds!”. And if there's a flurry of activity around a spawnpoint, it is unreasonable to every member of one party to keep individual running times of every member of the other party spawning into a spawnpoint. I suggest to keep it simple, let the mod do its job.

I also must post that the 60 second spawn protection rule, even if it has some merit, can and will be used, in the current state of the rule, to allow abuse such that a player may teleport to a location, be free from all attacks, can fully loot a location without attacking the defenders of the location, and can teleport away repeatedly. If you must allow the rules to be swayed to meet the demands of those who wish to use insufficient network bandwidth, then keep the timeout under 30 seconds or the timeout required for teleportation cooldown to allow a reasonable defense. I still recommend letting the existing mods to maintain the 10 second protection after teleportation.

I see direct and indirect attacks were taken out. That would allow nikkybot to join the channel as well as agreeing with the general spirit of PvP gameplay:


Rules should be kept simple to police, the sysadmins will have to take more time to look into possible rule infringements if they are overly complicated.

This is extremely rude and not related to PvP at all; it's an issue of fairness. No they shouldn't specifically accomodate me, I want the playing field level. I can't be protected at town spawn, they can't do the horse glitch, and I want both of those leveled. My internet speed is not my problem because I cannot control it at all, so I won't play Minecraft on the internet if those with faster internet will discriminate against me. And I didn't say I wanted the rules to accomodate me, that's blatant slander: I'm promoting banning the horse glitch, which chiefly benefits Frozen and I.

And yeah, "borrowed" accounts? That would include certain people...

I'm fine with all the rules, though I don't know how the "cool down" rule would work.

Remember, Comic wrote this, so it's super vague and terrible.

I agree that one minute of protection is too long, and when would that timer begin? At the tp or when the game catches up to it? I still think home restrictions would be a better solution.

As for glitching, I think that mild glitches should be allowed, such as going through one thick walls.

That timer would begin once you are killed. So you'd have a minute from then to get to your spawn of choice. There's no plugin to enforce this so it's entirely an honor system. If you need to know the time you died, set your IRC client to log the seconds for each line.I'd address claims of "I was killed within one minute!" by checking logs on IRC and the console.

If this of course gets to time consuming for me to follow up on, I'd find a plugin that does something similar and remove the rule since it'd more-or-less be auto-enforced.

Frozen, what's your argument for horse glitching? I have arguments against it but the only argument for it is "I think it should be allowed." Unless I'm missing the posts with the pro-supportive arguments...?

Which plugin currently handles the 10 seconds? I'm sure that could be changed, if not in configuration then probably through source. Wouldn't be a need to worry about it then.

None, as far as I'm aware. From an earlier post it sounds like spawn protection is a vanilla feature. If it isn't then it's likely WorldGuard or something. I've been searching but the only "Spawn Protection" results I've been getting en masse is for terrain protection (which was removed from vanilla MC but kept in Bukkit, from what I understand while reading believing it was about damage.)

I am fairly certain I can modify EssentialsProtect to do what you want. On spawning in, set a timer for the player. If the player deals damage, stop the timer. If the player receives damage, check the timer and ignore if not expired. If this is something to be considered, then this would seem better to continue in PMs than here to stay on-topic.

Without horse glitching, all walls are impossible to pass through without permissions. With horse glitching, you need to make thicker walls, but sometimes it's not possible to thicken all of them, so it puts insecurities in almost every base, which makes raids possible. As for the lag, anyone can horse glitch through one block, so that should be allowed, but if you happen to appear on the other side of a two block thick wall, I don't think that it should be assumed that lag was induced to do so.

He stated a fact. It is clear that most of the rules favor the people suggesting them: the people who blatantly abuse horse glitching and have the tools or connections to be able to do so want it, and the people who tend to get killed a lot at their town spawns want rules preventing that from happening. PvP is supposed to be about everyone being equally vulnerable to legitimate strategies, and have to use their brains to work around problems. This goes especially for building town spawns with safety and security mechanisms that allow you to keep things safe even when your physical space has intruders. In that vein, I as an admin have so far ruled that use of glitches is good strategy rather than abuse, but there's a line past where use of such glitches and abuse of that good will means we just need to make exploitation of every glitch an instant ban. Horse clutching has gotten to that point.