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eveenstra


Newbie


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 27

Posted: 06 Mar 2010 12:43:33 pm    Post subject:

After crashing a couple of times, it locked up and has been locked up for 2 weeks now. I've tried everything, nothing works.
This was calcdude84se response from another topic:
calcdude84se wrote:
Even after re-inserting the batteries? Try this:
Remove one or more of the AAA batteries. Hold down DEL as you re-insert it. You will see a screen saying "install OS now". Press ON, and then any key at the error message. Press on to turn the calc back on. If this doesn't work, then try re-sending the OS as detailed above, but actually install it at the "install OS now" screen. If this doesn't work, than I feel really bad for you.
(Sorry for the off-topic post, mods)

Good and bad news: it unfroze my calc, but when I resent the OS w/ Tilp, it crashed halfway through. Now, every time i turn it on, it says waiting to recieve OS, then displays an error message.
I emailed TI about it, but they haven't responded back yet (its been 3 days now), so any suggestions are appreciated.

P.S: If anyone is in the same boat as me, i know where you can find OS 2.43. Email me if you want it.
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Eeems


Advanced Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 277

Posted: 06 Mar 2010 01:02:49 pm    Post subject:

Hmm, if I were you I would have tried to send the OS using ti-connect. But it's too late now...
Well you could try sending the OS from another calc, and see if that works. But other then that I have no idea.
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eveenstra


Newbie


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 27

Posted: 06 Mar 2010 02:08:19 pm    Post subject:

TI-Connect doesn't recognize my calc. I tried to send it, and my computer said it was connected, but TI-Connect wouldn't recongize it.
How do you send an OS from one calc to another? Its not a option in the link menu.
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calcdude84se


Member


Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 207

Posted: 06 Mar 2010 05:45:00 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, there is: the SendOS option in the link menu. It's near the bottom, but it's there all right.
Hope you have luck... Smile
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eveenstra


Newbie


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 27

Posted: 06 Mar 2010 05:56:17 pm    Post subject:

Thanks, man. I'll have to wait until Monday when I can get a second calc.
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eveenstra


Newbie


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 27

Posted: 08 Mar 2010 03:41:39 pm    Post subject:

Nope, didn't work. I hooked up the link cable, and sent the OS from the good calc to mine, but it wouldn't accept it.

Any other suggestions?
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calcdude84se


Member


Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 207

Posted: 08 Mar 2010 07:30:48 pm    Post subject:

Let's suppose that this problem is caused by a messed up certificate (you can find out what that is elsewhere)
A messed up certificate can cause problems with recieving an OS.
So,... somewhere or another I remember brandonw or someone else commenting that there is a possibility that this can be fixed by sending a certificate from another calc. If only I could remember where I read it... however, I think you'll need a inter-calc link cable for the I/O port instead of for the USB port, which is what most people w/an 84 have.
I'll look for it, but if someone else can find what I'm talking about, that would be good.

Edit: This probably occurred in an IRC chat. I'll check the channel...


Last edited by Guest on 08 Mar 2010 07:34:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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brandonw


Advanced Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 455

Posted: 08 Mar 2010 10:24:25 pm    Post subject:

calcdude84se wrote:
Let's suppose that this problem is caused by a messed up certificate (you can find out what that is elsewhere)
A messed up certificate can cause problems with recieving an OS.
So,... somewhere or another I remember brandonw or someone else commenting that there is a possibility that this can be fixed by sending a certificate from another calc. If only I could remember where I read it... however, I think you'll need a inter-calc link cable for the I/O port instead of for the USB port, which is what most people w/an 84 have.
I'll look for it, but if someone else can find what I'm talking about, that would be good.

Edit: This probably occurred in an IRC chat. I'll check the channel...


What do you mean by it wouldn't accept the OS? What error did it give? When using an I/O cable, sometimes TiLP or TI Connect can trip up the boot code and cause it to throw "ERROR!" immediately. It's a very twitchy link. What you should do is use TI OSDownloader and get ready to hit the "Start Download" button, and then, with the I/O cable plugged in, pull a battery, hold DEL, re-insert the battery, and let go. You might have to do this a couple times before it doesn't say "ERROR!". Once it does, hit Start Download and you'll find that it works.

The certificate problem you're talking about is extremely rare (you have to be trying REALLY hard with a very particular and malicious program to trigger it...messing with the OS will not cause this). But to answer your question, it's a program called overflow at http://brandonw.net/calcstuff/overflow.zip (also on ticalc.org somewhere). It doesn't transfer a certificate, it triggers a buffer overflow exploit in the boot code to allow you to send code to it and execute it. The code you would send to fix this particular problem would be a few lines to erase the bad certificate, which would then let you transfer the OS as above.
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calcdude84se


Member


Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 207

Posted: 09 Mar 2010 04:32:18 pm    Post subject:

So I am obviously being to careless in my diagnostics... Oh well, I'm new to this...
I still hope eveenstra has luck...
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eveenstra


Newbie


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 27

Posted: 09 Mar 2010 09:36:41 pm    Post subject:

brandonw wrote:
calcdude84se wrote:
Let's suppose that this problem is caused by a messed up certificate (you can find out what that is elsewhere)
A messed up certificate can cause problems with recieving an OS.
So,... somewhere or another I remember brandonw or someone else commenting that there is a possibility that this can be fixed by sending a certificate from another calc. If only I could remember where I read it... however, I think you'll need a inter-calc link cable for the I/O port instead of for the USB port, which is what most people w/an 84 have.
I'll look for it, but if someone else can find what I'm talking about, that would be good.

Edit: This probably occurred in an IRC chat. I'll check the channel...


What do you mean by it wouldn't accept the OS? What error did it give? When using an I/O cable, sometimes TiLP or TI Connect can trip up the boot code and cause it to throw "ERROR!" immediately. It's a very twitchy link. What you should do is use TI OSDownloader and get ready to hit the "Start Download" button, and then, with the I/O cable plugged in, pull a battery, hold DEL, re-insert the battery, and let go. You might have to do this a couple times before it doesn't say "ERROR!". Once it does, hit Start Download and you'll find that it works.


What i meant was Tilp wouldn't recongize the calc as being plugged in to the computer, therefore unable to send anything. (Btw, i was using the DirectLink USB, not an I/O cable) When i turn the calc on, it says "Waiting... Please install operatinig system now" then after about 1 second it says "ERROR! Press any key to turn your unit off. Then turn unit back on."

calcdude84se wrote:
I still hope eveenstra has luck...

Thanks. I need all the luck I can get Smile


Last edited by Guest on 09 Mar 2010 09:38:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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calcdude84se


Member


Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 207

Posted: 10 Mar 2010 06:32:44 pm    Post subject:

You see, you need to provide more info before I can become useful. :biggrin:
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DrDnar


Member


Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 116

Posted: 11 Mar 2010 10:42:12 pm    Post subject:

Try removing a battery, holding MODE, replacing the battery, and, while still holding MODE, pressing ON again. This should trigger the boot mode self-test.

2.53 has been obscenely unstable for me too (I've used my undeleter more in the past two weeks than ever before), though I'm not sure that it's so bad that it erased your OS and corrupted the certificate. Matrices have been a frequent source of crashing for me, as well as BASIC programs. What have you been doing immediately before each crash? I'd like to gather more information about the crashing and develop a repeatable procedure that can crash any calculator any time.
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eveenstra


Newbie


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 27

Posted: 12 Mar 2010 03:35:26 pm    Post subject:

Dr. D wrote:
Try removing a battery, holding MODE, replacing the battery, and, while still holding MODE, pressing ON again. This should trigger the boot mode self-test.

I don't know what thats supposed to do, mine says "Testing flash" for a minute, then starts counting up from 1 to infinity (mine got up to 3200) until you press a button, when it will start over.
Dr. D wrote:
though I'm not sure that it's so bad that it erased your OS and corrupted the certificate.

Sorry if I didn't explain enough. TiLP crashed halfway through sending the OS, that's what erased it. The crashes themselves only slowed my calc down a lot.
Dr. D wrote:
Matrices have been a frequent source of crashing for me, as well as BASIC programs. What have you been doing immediately before each crash? I'd like to gather more information about the crashing and develop a repeatable procedure that can crash any calculator any time.

The best way to crash a calc is to install omnicalc, and try to use the entries menu. It will display a menu hundreds of characters long, and when you try to get out of it, it crashes every time. That's how I messed up my calc, i did that like 9 or 10 times.

I suppose you know about this way to crash any Ti-83/84, but this is the easiest way. Make a program with these two lines:
:AsmPrgm
:C7 (or C8, both work)

Then in the homescreen, run Asm(prgmYOURNAME. It will crash every time.


Last edited by Guest on 21 Jun 2010 11:40:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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brandonw


Advanced Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 455

Posted: 12 Mar 2010 03:59:20 pm    Post subject:

A calculator bricked from a corrupted certificate behaves in a very particular way, crashing/locking up right when an OS transfer starts. That's not what's happening here.

Whatever's going on, it can be undone.
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eveenstra


Newbie


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 27

Posted: 12 Mar 2010 06:09:13 pm    Post subject:

Right, i think that it can be fixed also, but i don't know how.

Would an I/O cable work better than a usb when going from calc to calc. I mean, does it have privileges that the usb doesn't?

Edit: Oh yea, six days after i sent them an email, TI responded to me. This is what they said:
Quote:
Hello,

Thank you for contacting Texas Instruments.

I regret that your TI-84 Plus/TI-84 Plus Silver Edition is not functioning properly. I do not know of any other solutions that would resolve what you are experiencing with your graphing calculator.

Perhaps a representative can evaluate your unit.

Thank you and have a great day.


Editx2: A little off topic, but TI now has desktop wallpaper. Another excerpt from my email:
Quote:
Need something TI-rrific to jazz up your computer? Try wallpaper!

http://education.ti.com/educationportal/si.../wallpaper.html

I found that kinda funny Smile Especially if you look at them.


Last edited by Guest on 12 Mar 2010 07:01:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Smartzkid


Newbie


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 27

Posted: 12 Mar 2010 07:48:33 pm    Post subject:

eveenstra wrote:
Editx2: A little off topic, but TI now has desktop wallpaper. Another excerpt from my email:
Quote:
Need something TI-rrific to jazz up your computer? Try wallpaper!

http://education.ti.com/educationportal/si.../wallpaper.html

I found that kinda funny Smile Especially if you look at them.


Wow. Low res much?
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DrDnar


Member


Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 116

Posted: 12 Mar 2010 10:55:10 pm    Post subject:

eveenstra wrote:
I don't know what thats supposed to do, mine says "Testing flash" for a minute, then starts counting up from 1 to infinity (mine got up to 3200) until you press a button, when it will start over.
It tests flash, exactly as it says. In the process, it erases all erasable sectors except the certificate. (I apologize for neglecting to mention that it also erases all of the archive.) If there was any data in the flash preventing the OS from being sent, it has been erased. It should additionally verify that the flash chip is not defective and unable to hold an OS long enough to validate.

I've also heard that there's a bug (of omission) in the OS concerning the OS self-test; specifically, after you run the test and reinstall the operating system, the OS fails to mark any sector in the archive as being a swap sector, giving you an extra 64 K of archive space until you need to garbage collect, at which point you're screwed because the OS can't garbage collect. The solution is to do 2nd > Mem > Reset > All memory, which resets all the archive, and in the process recreates the swap sector. (Also, for great fun, mark every sector in the archive as a swap sector.)

eveenstra wrote:
The best way to crash a calc is to install omnicalc, and try to use the entries menu. It will display a menu hundreds of characters long, and when you try to get out of it, it crashes every time. That's how I messed up my calc, i did that like 9 or 10 times.
TI is pretty shameless about breaking compatibility with third-party software; in fact, they seem to regret ever making it possible. Michael (or someone else) will need to update Omnicalc for use on 2.53.

eveenstra wrote:
I suppose you know about this way to crash any Ti-83/84
I'm specifically looking for ways to crash the OS without use of any external software. The idea is to root out the bugs causing these crashes, which make the OS nigh-on unusable for anything more than simple math. Then again, maybe TI is perfectly happy to screw over people trying to use RAM programs.

On the topic of OS transfers again, you should try installing another 3rd-party OS on your calculator using an exploit just to see if it can work.

And on the topic of unbricking again, I once bricked my calculator with a bad certificate and had to use the unbricker. I actually printed out the UOFLOW and CODE.8xp programs and typed them in manually on a borrowed calculator so I didn't have to try to borrow one overnight. It took several tries to get it right. Groups came in really handy, since they let me save my work to the archive before trying again.

The attached code.8xp program is a replacement for the code.8xp BrandonW provided with his unbricker. This one attempts to invoke the flash chip's built-in full chip erase command (the auto-select commands don't work, so this might not either). Once the sending calculator freezes, the full chip erase operation could take up to a minute to run, and this program produces no visual output, so just let it run and see it works. In theory, there's no particular reason to use this one over the one BrandonW provides, other than the fact that it's shorter and therefore easier to type into another calculator. (I used BrandonW's to unbrick my unit.)
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FloppusMaximus


Advanced Member


Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 472

Posted: 12 Mar 2010 11:33:18 pm    Post subject:

I would try sending it from another calc using the standard (non-USB) link.

Also, try using fresh batteries (even if the boot code doesn't complain right away, upgrading the OS can be hard on the batteries.) For the same reason, if you do need to use a USB link to transfer the OS, it may work better if you connect the transmitting calc to the "A" plug and the receiving calc to the "B" plug - it probably won't make a huge difference, but it's worth a try.

Whatever cable you use, make sure it's properly seated at both ends.

Regarding Flash corruption: it shouldn't make it impossible to install the OS, unless the certificate is corrupted (which, as others have said, is unlikely, and this would only cause problems at either the very beginning or the very end of the transfer.) If the OS transfers correctly and won't turn on, hold CLEAR while booting. The boot mode self test will clear everything except the certificate, but, I believe, so will the Reset All Memory option in the OS.

Also,
Quote:
This one attempts to invoke the flash chip's built-in full chip erase command (the auto-select commands don't work, so this might not either).

Have you tested this? I don't know whether it works or not, and I don't want to be the guy who finds out. The best possible outcome here is no better than what you can do with normal Flash erase commands, and the worst possible outcome is REALLY REALLY BAD. There is no reason you should ever need to do this.
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eveenstra


Newbie


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 27

Posted: 13 Mar 2010 09:12:58 am    Post subject:

[quote name='Dr. D'nar' post='141026' date='Mar 12 2010, 10:55 PM']
eveenstra wrote:
I don't know what thats supposed to do, mine says "Testing flash" for a minute, then starts counting up from 1 to infinity (mine got up to 3200) until you press a button, when it will start over.
It tests flash, exactly as it says. In the process, it erases all erasable sectors except the certificate. (I apologize for neglecting to mention that it also erases all of the archive.) If there was any data in the flash preventing the OS from being sent, it has been erased. It should additionally verify that the flash chip is not defective and unable to hold an OS long enough to validate.[/quote]
Right, but what do the numbers counting up mean? What number do i let it get to?

FloppusMaximus wrote:
If the OS transfers correctly and won't turn on, hold CLEAR while booting.

That didn't do anything on my calc.

FloppusMaximus wrote:
Also,
Quote:
This one attempts to invoke the flash chip's built-in full chip erase command (the auto-select commands don't work, so this might not either).

Have you tested this? I don't know whether it works or not, and I don't want to be the guy who finds out. The best possible outcome here is no better than what you can do with normal Flash erase commands, and the worst possible outcome is REALLY REALLY BAD. There is no reason you should ever need to do this.

Don't worry, I didn't do it.
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DrDnar


Member


Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 116

Posted: 15 Mar 2010 12:55:01 pm    Post subject:

FloppusMaximus wrote:
The best possible outcome here is no better than what you can do with normal Flash erase commands, and the worst possible outcome is REALLY REALLY BAD.

Come now, what are chances that full chip erase actually erases the boot sector? Don't you think "any program or erase operations within that sector" includes full chip erase?
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