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This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics. S.A.D. (Seek and Destroy) =>
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hotdog1234


Advanced Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 291

Posted: 24 Aug 2009 01:27:27 pm    Post subject:

S.A.D. is a real-time strategy game for Ti-83+ and Ti-84+ calculators. It takes place in the future, and features gameplay totally unique to the RTS genre. Rather than controlling massive armies to battle an opponent, you control a single unit. You have 9 available units to choose from. Each of the nine units has its own abilities, its own strengths, and its own weaknesses. One unit constructs buildings, another performs sneak attacks, another has absolute air-superiority, and still another is best for taking out structures with its heavy cannon.

With the ability to change your unit thoughout the game, your goal is to defeat your opponent by choosing the right unit at the right time, at the same time that you are building up your base to aid in your goal. One wrong move, one moment that you use a unit out of place, could mean the difference between victory and defeat.


Metagross and I are in the planning stages right now, so although this topic is available for progress updates and questions, you will probably find the two of us conversing back and forth on this forum as well. Anything I describe may be changed in the future while we are planning.

Since the idea of S.A.D. is to beat your opponent using a variety of ships, one ship at a time, there needs to be a way to be able to select a different ship. There are two buildings that allow you to do this: an Operation Center, and a Transformation Gateway.

Gameplay: Operation Centers and Transformation Gateways both allow you to replace, repair, refuel or refill your unit, all for a price. You can exchange your unit for another one to adapt to your strategy. You can repair your unit if it is damaged. You can refuel your unit--moving and firing weapons requires fuel. Finally, some units require "refills" in terms of upgrades...if you use up all or part of an upgrade or a special ability, you can restock.

Also important is the ability to teleport between Operation Centers and Transformation Gateways. While teleporting requires about five seconds to complete, it is very effective in reaching a certain area of the map. Therefore, the more Operation Centers and Transformation Gateways you have, the more access you have instantly to most of the map.

If you lose your unit in battle, you can choose a starting point at any Operation Center or Transformation Gateway. This means that if you die, you don't have to respawn at your starting position if there is an Operation Center or a Transformation Gateway further out.

An Operation Center is very expensive, but can only be destroyed by a special kind of torpedo, called (for the time being) a Dronomonic Torpedo. Very few units can be armed with this special kind of torpedo. A Transformation Gateway is very cheap, but it can be destroyed by any weapon fire.

Here are some first-draft pictures. The first structure is an Operation Center, and the second is a Transformation Gateway.

[attachment=2760:S.A.D._O..._Gateway.JPG]

Programming: The buildings will be designed in both 16x16 and 8x8 tile multiples in size. This will allow the buildings to be fused into the tiled map and the tiled mini-map, respectively, to improve performance.

For Metagross: Here's what I'm looking at, approximately, for the first few steps:

1. Discuss gameplay, and how to implement it into the programming. This does not mean writing code, more like "This is the process we want to take when programming begins"
2. Discuss what we're going to do map-wise, once gameplay is all figured
3. Design tiles for a test map (This will be my job. The test map will be used during the programming.)
4. Code a tile-map displayer using Celtic III (This will be your job)


Last edited by Guest on 07 Dec 2009 06:22:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JoeYoung


Advanced Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 316

Posted: 24 Aug 2009 04:13:41 pm    Post subject:

aye-aye, cap'n. I just curious how you're gonna tackle the "real-time" part >_>

Turn-based is so much easier :o

Anyhoo, the tile map displaying part is easy. since they're are going to be 16x16 and 8x8, I assume there are two map modes. will there be some sort of key you press to switch between the two?
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hotdog1234


Advanced Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 291

Posted: 24 Aug 2009 08:13:29 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
aye-aye, cap'n. I just curious how you're gonna tackle the "real-time" part >_>


You know what? I don't know.

Seriously.

I had everything figured out, until tonight, when I tested a theory. I was going to have as few sprites as possible...6 sprites per frame for each player in the game is necessary, making a total of 12 sprites per frame. Four sprites for each player would be used for a unit, two to erase a previous image whilst perserving the background, and two to draw the new unit image. The other 2 would be used for weapons, once again erasing and drawing.

Celtic III, and Xlib, can draw a maximum of around 54 sprites per second, and that's when there is no other coding involved. This means that the game will be really slow, not great for an RTS game, even when only one ship is controlled.

I think I'm just going to have to sit down and learn ASM, unless a miracle arrives, because from what I've seen, it can do hundreds of sprites per second, meaning twelve (or more) sprites per frame can achieve a higher framerate.

Metagross, you're welcome to quit the project and move onto other things if you want. I'm probably going to end up taking some time learning ASM.
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JoeYoung


Advanced Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 316

Posted: 24 Aug 2009 09:46:30 pm    Post subject:

well, I dunno. :/

maybe we can go forward in a turn-based direction? In any case, I won't quit the project until you cancel it. maybe we can come up with a breakthrough.

I will, however, take the time to concentrate on my other stuff.
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hotdog1234


Advanced Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 291

Posted: 24 Aug 2009 11:30:52 pm    Post subject:

Thanks. I'd say definitely concentrate on your other stuff for right now. We'll probably end up switching some roles, where I program and you work on map sprites, but we can discuss it later.

As for the idea of turn-based strategy, while that is a good approach, there are several turn-based strategy games out there, but no real-time strategy games, hence, I'm trying to change that. I did find a breakthrough, but the game would run at 13 frames per second at most, and that's before all the programming aspects come in--plus, it's on a 15 MHz processor. But it's probably not going to take long for us to get going again...ASM is long, but I was surprised to find its not very hard once you get the hang of it. Good luck with your other stuff, in the meantime

As for everyone else, I'll still be posting...I'm still planning the game aspects, and will probably start work on the engine sooner than I think.
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hotdog1234


Advanced Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 291

Posted: 27 Aug 2009 01:08:13 am    Post subject:

I did some more testing and found out that ASM has a lightning-fast speed of almost 10,000 8x8 sprites per second--probably more, since my code could be a little bit more optimized. So I'm definitely sticking with ASM. I am assuming that with ~ 10,000 sprites a second, I'll be able to do 30 fps with a tilemap and 6 sprites per frame even in code that is not fully optimized. I'm hoping for more than that (with what I might be doing campaign-wise), but we'll see about that

My next step is, of course, designing the engine, starting with a tile map.

Metagross, I definitely encourage you to keep your priority on your other projects for the time being, since the engine will take a while. However, at your convenience, I do need some 16 x 16 and 8 x 8 tiles to test out my tilemap. Here's the deal:

* All 8 x 8 tiles are non-isometric
* Most 16 x 16 tiles need to be isometric, but some don't. I'll put a star next to tiles that need to be isometric.
* If you have something that gives binary (or hexadecimal) data for tiles, I'll need that for each tile
* There should be an 8 x 8 tile for every 16 x 16 tile (in other words, a big sprite and a smaller sprite)
* I noticed that you did some sprite work by copying other sprites. You might want to look at some Starcraft maps to do just that.
* There will be several terrains for maps, the one I need to test with is ice

Here's the sprites/tiles I'll need for the test map I'm working on:

Terrain boundaries (where you can't walk off the edge), corner boundaries, and snow for walking on *
Kind of like this: [attachment=2762:9_Tiles_Example.JPG]
Water tiles (Same idea) *
Ice tiles (Same idea) *
Mountain boundaries *
3 rocks (2 black, one white)
2 barren trees
Crevasse tiles: horizontal, vertical, curves, and one intersecting *
Kind of like this: [attachment=2761:7_Tiles_Example.JPG]
1 Icicle (From the ground up)
1 Tile with crushed ice *
1 Tile of white crystals (you probably guessed it--belthium crystals)

Be aware that forming a wall with isometric tiles may require 2 - 3 tiles for some directions. If you need any guidance with isometric tiles (besides starcraft maps), one of my friends gave me this tilemap he was using before he quit an RPG game he was working on. Don't worry, I confirmed that you have his permission to use this as a guide. This will show how it may take more than one tile for an isometric wall.

[attachment=2763:Eliminat...st_Tiles.bmp]
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JoeYoung


Advanced Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 316

Posted: 27 Aug 2009 06:32:06 am    Post subject:

I've.... never done isometrics before :/

I'll see what I can do for tile design in a week or so, but beyond that, I cannot help much if you move to assembly.

I'll prioritize with the 8x8 first and base the isometrics on it later.
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hotdog1234


Advanced Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 291

Posted: 27 Aug 2009 09:06:48 am    Post subject:

You know, now that I think about it, why don't you make all the tiles non-isometric. This has nothing to do with what I believe you can and can't do Rolling Eyes, but since I might be "editing" some of the tiles anyways, I'll be able to apply what exactly I'm looking for using your non-isometric tiles as a guide. But make sure they're detailed :biggrin:

Quote:
beyond that, I cannot help much if you move to assembly


*evil chuckle* Oh, you just wait until you see what I have in store for you when I'm finished with this engine...and it has nothing to do with assembly...


Last edited by Guest on 27 Aug 2009 09:07:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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ztrumpet


Active Member


Joined: 06 May 2009
Posts: 555

Posted: 27 Aug 2009 09:19:51 am    Post subject:

AAhhhhhhhhhh!!! An Evil Hot Dog!

Jokeing matters aside: This game is looking great!
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hotdog1234


Advanced Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 291

Posted: 28 Aug 2009 11:57:29 am    Post subject:

Work on the tilemap is progressing very smoothly...I must say that spamming comments has really paid off in the long run. There are going to be several maps and several different types of terrain, so I made sure to include that sort of information in the tilemap. In addition, the tilemap will be smooth scrolling, rather than scrolling in intervals of 16 or 8, this will accomidate the fact that most movement and attacking is done manually rather than automatically.

On the planning side, Metagross is going to be designing Belthium Crystals, the source of income in S.A.D. The harvesting method will be similar to that of Supreme Commander...rather than using workers, you use buildings to harvest. However, like most RTS games, there is no limit as to how many resources you can store, and you cannot build something if you don't have enough resources for it.

A Mine is used to harvest. You can have four mines around a crystal deposit. This means I'm using one 16 x 16 tile for the mine, as a Belthium Crystal Deposit uses a 16 x 16 tile.

[attachment=2767:S.A.D._Mine.JPG]

How much a "Mine will mine" per second will be determined during balancing, but it will be a set interval per second.
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Rebma Boss


Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 116

Posted: 30 Aug 2009 04:35:33 pm    Post subject:

Is there going to be some kind of map designer so that we can create our own maps?
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JoeYoung


Advanced Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 316

Posted: 30 Aug 2009 04:44:29 pm    Post subject:

sounds feasible, I guess. depends on how the maps are stored. I see no reason why not

btw, still working on those tiles
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hotdog1234


Advanced Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 291

Posted: 30 Aug 2009 06:13:16 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Is there going to be some kind of map designer so that we can create our own maps?


Hmmm...Metagross, if I provide you with the data format, can you make a map-editor via Celtic III? My idea is to have all the tile data stored inside of an AppData file for the Map Editor to use. I'll provide more details if you are able to do the map editor.

There is going to be a map-compiler for sure, if nothing else. The S.A.D. zip file will include a 16 x 16 tile map editor for PC designed by someone else, and an executable file that will turn the saved file into the format that S.A.D. will use.

As a bonus, you will probably (but not for sure) be able to create your own tilesets to include with your map (partly because this makes map editing easier for us as well). Of course, this will make your map size a lot bigger, and with 10 or more tilesets available, there are probably not many people who will use it.

Quote:
btw, still working on those tiles


Great! Keep up the good work.

My work on the tilemap is, for now, finished, so my next step is to work on the engine for moving units. Expect an animation of a Scouter sometime this week, if all goes well.

Edit: Custom tiles will be implemented.

Edit: Here is the first preview of the Scouter. The first animation is the Scouter rotating its arms around. A Scouter is one of the units that uses rotating turrets to fire with. This means that in combat, one must rotate the turrets using the keypad in order to fire in the right direction. The second animation is the Scouter walking in place. Of course, a Scouter can move, rotate the turrets, and fire at the same time.

[attachment=2771:Scouter_Rotate.gif]

[attachment=2770:Scouter_Movement.gif]


Last edited by Guest on 30 Aug 2009 11:35:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JoeYoung


Advanced Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 316

Posted: 31 Aug 2009 11:59:16 am    Post subject:

Sure I could. additionally, I need a list of the different tiles you need.
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hotdog1234


Advanced Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 291

Posted: 01 Sep 2009 01:57:44 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Sure I could. additionally, I need a list of the different tiles you need.


Good, we'll cover that later. Oh, once you're done with the ice tiles, another low-priority thing I need done (low-priority because I don't need it in the next two weeks or so) is sprites for some explosion animations. Thanks!

* I need sprites for a 16 x 16 explosion, and sprites for a 32 x 32 explosion
* You're looking at 30 frames per second over a period of 1.5 seconds. Each frame needs a different sprite. It just means you can't use one sprite for two or more frames in a row, but you're welcome to come up with, for example, 4 sprites that repeat over and over during a period.
* The explosion needs to start up, and die away during the animation.
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JoeYoung


Advanced Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 316

Posted: 01 Sep 2009 03:43:17 pm    Post subject:

o_O

I need an ice tile?

this is why I need a list :P

and ok, I'll theorize about an explosion.
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hotdog1234


Advanced Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 291

Posted: 01 Sep 2009 03:54:00 pm    Post subject:

I gave you the list eariler...I guess I mean to say "Ice Tile SET"

But here's the list again. If you look eariler in the forum, you'll probably remember that I put up some guidance pictures.

Terrain boundaries (where you can't walk off the edge), corner boundaries, and snow for walking on *
Water tiles (Same idea) *
Ice tiles (Same idea) *
Mountain boundaries *
3 rocks (2 black, one white)
2 barren trees
Crevasse tiles: horizontal, vertical, curves, and one intersecting *
1 Icicle (From the ground up)
1 Tile with crushed ice *
1 Tile of white crystals (you probably guessed it--belthium crystals)
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JoeYoung


Advanced Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 316

Posted: 01 Sep 2009 04:44:18 pm    Post subject:

ok, sorry. NOW i can get to work on it Razz
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hotdog1234


Advanced Member


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 291

Posted: 01 Sep 2009 04:50:52 pm    Post subject:

NP! Incidentally, what tiles were you working on when you said "btw, still working on those tiles?" Neutral
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JoeYoung


Advanced Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 316

Posted: 01 Sep 2009 09:11:32 pm    Post subject:

ground, mountains, and water. I'll post them up when I finish with the list, cause they need some touching up.
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