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Madskillz


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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
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Posted: 14 Nov 2004 05:32:40 pm    Post subject:

I know somebody that made some awesome sonic graphics...in b&w, so we could certainly use those! Very Happy

Last edited by Guest on 14 Nov 2004 05:39:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shadowing
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Posted: 15 Nov 2004 09:17:52 pm    Post subject:

Dang... The source code is very different. But I can make sense of it. It's very scattered as mentioned before. But Thats Not Going To Deter Me From Doing This!!! If anyone out there wants to help, plz contribute.
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Madskillz


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Posted: 15 Nov 2004 10:19:56 pm    Post subject:

ha ha ha...
Quote:
Dang... The source code is very different.
Coulda told you that man...I have yet to look at it...but I don't know if it would be smarter to start from scratch or try and port this....Starting from scratch almost seems easier. Wink
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shadowing
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Posted: 15 Nov 2004 10:35:09 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, you're right there. Though I want to use the sprites... I think i'm more used to making a 8X8 movement engine then free movement. Though I will try. Besides madskillz, is there anyone else to help?
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DigiTan
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Posted: 15 Nov 2004 11:36:09 pm    Post subject:

I've gotta agree with Madskillz on this one. Starting from scratch definately seems to be the winning strategy here. If any porting is to be done, I'd suggest only going as far as porting the game's structure in general. For example, if the 89 source has a routine called "Speed Up," make an almost-identical one called 'speed up.' If they list a routine called "platform," copy that too (actually both of these are real routines). Just be sure to give them credit.

The file "sma.asm" is thier main program, so I'd start there. Read it over, find out what each "include" file does, check out those files, etc. 'Generally get a feel for what does what.
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shadowing
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Posted: 15 Nov 2004 11:43:38 pm    Post subject:

Okay. I looked at it. HOLY MOLY!!! The structure of the 89 asm is hard to understand. I understand some part of it, but I see no reason to put in the anti crash part. Well, I guess we should start from scratch. Because of the probable limitations of ram, I think we should have a lot of optimization and only one level. Until we can make sure it would run fast enough, I think only one level should be implemented.

Now onto the real matter... Should it be greyscale, or not? And who wants to help?

EDIT: Sorry if it didn't make sense this post.
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DigiTan
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Posted: 16 Nov 2004 01:09:29 am    Post subject:

Hmmm. I just realized that sma. is an anagram of .asm. :: Hysterical laughter :: *Cough* * cough* Ahem! Excuse me.

Personally, Sonics 1, 2, 3, and CD happen to be some of my favorite games of all time, so I'd like to help out wherever I can. About the greyscale: I say go for it; but only after the graphix engine is ready. That'll give you an oppourtunity to tell if the greyscale can be flickerless or not. I'd maybe leave out the parallax scrolling unless it's conveinent.
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shadowing
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Posted: 16 Nov 2004 01:12:13 am    Post subject:

Cool. I guess so. Well, DigiTan, let me know if you wish to help. I think you would be a fine addition. I can't do this alone. So ppl out there interested, plz post to help.

Well, time to get started on the title and engine.
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leofox
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Posted: 16 Nov 2004 05:44:01 am    Post subject:

shadowing wrote:
Now onto the real matter... Should it be greyscale, or not?

I think it shouldn't be greyscale. It's difficult to make a fast Sonic WITHOUT greyscale, let alone WITH greyscale. Remember that greyscale games are about 10 times slower than B&W games.

just my 0,02.
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Madskillz


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Posted: 16 Nov 2004 10:44:13 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I think it shouldn't be greyscale. It's difficult to make a fast Sonic WITHOUT greyscale, let alone WITH greyscale. Remember that greyscale games are about 10 times slower than B&W games.

-Very well said! Laughing I too, believe greyscale would not be good for this project! It would be way to slow for a game that great speed is involved in! Lets stick with B&W for now...and then if we thank it is doable, without a great loss of speed, move up to greyscale!

Ok...what about the sprite sizes of Sonic? I think 16x16 is adequate...8x8 too small, and 32x32 possible...I have gotten the pictures of the b&w Sonic, just gotta convert them to .gst files, than I'll post them. Porbably tomorrow. Mike_K, whom the graphics were made by, also included a titlescreen, the stage screen, and a sample of a level...which I'll turn each 8x8 pixels into tiles...ok, well onto tomorrow! Smile
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shadowing
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Posted: 16 Nov 2004 10:46:44 pm    Post subject:

cool... Well, i think 16X16 is enough. Well... is James even around?

EDIT: So far on staff...

Mike_K
madskillz
???


Last edited by Guest on 16 Nov 2004 10:47:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DigiTan
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Posted: 17 Nov 2004 12:43:53 am    Post subject:

16 x 16 is a good size. Whether or not the Sonic sprite will be greyscale is probably another matter; personally I think it would be easier to make a 'good' greyscale Sonic than a mono one. You might be able to get enough detail to get the size down to ?? x 8 (eight wide).

There's also a matter of prog size. Your typical Sonic level was x2 the size of a Mario one. And the Sonic 3 levels were x3 larger than that! You'll probably have to compress the levels down somehow.
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shadowing
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Posted: 17 Nov 2004 01:23:06 am    Post subject:

Ok. how can we compress it? What should we use? The Huffman compression (sorry taking a guess).

Well... I don't know. If we can make the greyscale work fast, then YES!!!

Do you want to help DigiTan?
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DigiTan
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Posted: 18 Nov 2004 12:23:10 am    Post subject:

Ticalc has a few really good compression routines online. RLE (Run Lenght Encoding) seems to be the reigning champ. Basically it looks for numbers in your level data that gets repeated more than 3 times and squishes it down. I used a variant of this in Robot War called ZCP (Zshell Compressed Pictures--it's not just for pictures though) and averaged 40% compression (76% was the max ever). And all I had to do was cut & paste that code into the game (I gave the author credit of course).

It's not really imporatant to decide on one right now, just be sure to check 'em out whenever you have the time. It'll be really important in level design.


Last edited by Guest on 18 Nov 2004 12:24:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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Madskillz


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Posted: 18 Nov 2004 04:33:10 pm    Post subject:

well...was the site down or something...because I could not view the forum or the main site at school or at home? Wierd anyhow...

Quote:
personally I think it would be easier to make a 'good' greyscale Sonic than a mono one. You might be able to get enough detail to get the size down to ?? x 8 (eight wide).

- I agree, on that it would be easir to create a 16x16 GS sonic...but we'll have to see! Wink Ok it looks like to me from some of TtT's code and it looks like they don't have sonic actually following the little loopty loops...it is just sprites in like 3-4 different spots on the loop! Can anybody confirm this with oh say an animated screenshot of the game. I have been so busy here, I haven't had time to look for one! Razz I thought we could at least have a GS titlescreen...Here is a sample titlepic, and the stage screen. I have a very cool idea for the stage thing. When I can get some time, I'll put them all together and get the stage thing working.
then upload a little demo ok?
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DigiTan
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Posted: 18 Nov 2004 06:08:17 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Ok it looks like to me from some of TtT's code and it looks like they don't have sonic actually following the little loopty loops

That's an interesting approach. I guess this was their way of getting around the weird Sonic physics where you can "stick" to walls or ceilings if you keep moving fast enough. I might actually have a TI-89 ROM left over from my high school years, so maybe I'll give it a whirl (inc puncount). Which source file were you looking at, Madskillz?
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Madskillz


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Posted: 18 Nov 2004 07:14:13 pm    Post subject:

Well...I am not exactly sure which .asm file I was in...Maybe engine.asm...I think that was it! I can look tomorrow, the sonic stuff is in my laptop,which is at my mom's house! Wink
:Stage beginning
:Sample title 1
I actually have a very good GS title, but I'll put that one on the demo!


Last edited by Guest on 18 Nov 2004 07:31:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shadowing
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Posted: 18 Nov 2004 09:54:23 pm    Post subject:

WOW!!! That is good. Maybe we can do that. Well, it is obvious to me that Madskillz can be the graphics designer. And Digitan can help us on a lot.

And I don't know what i will do.
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Madskillz


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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 608

Posted: 19 Nov 2004 04:37:01 pm    Post subject:

Well...like I said, I didn't make the graphics Mike K did...I also made a cool greyscale one, but that will be in the little demo I post... Razz Just to give some ideas on how things should look, and the cool stage thing, that I am working on.
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DigiTan
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Posted: 20 Nov 2004 01:08:29 am    Post subject:

This is an excellent start! I think the problem with our first attempt was that it never really got as far as the titlescreen, so there was no "commitment" to the idea. If you don't mind, I'm going to try to compress the picture with ZCP to see if the rates look good. I'll check in again tommorrow.
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