Perhaps the right thing to do is let Matt on his own, maybe he will eventually settle and stop with hate messages?
- 05 Aug 2012 09:10:28 am
- Last edited by Lionel Debroux on 05 Aug 2012 01:43:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Letting Matt on his own is part of the solution. IMO, the other part of the solution is CS coming back online.
Letting the Casio scene without a quality site [EDIT: just to clear up a potential misunderstanding that I've found when re-reading my message: I meant "one of its quality sites", not "its only quality site"] would be a bad outcome.
Letting the Casio scene without a quality site [EDIT: just to clear up a potential misunderstanding that I've found when re-reading my message: I meant "one of its quality sites", not "its only quality site"] would be a bad outcome.
By the way, has the original owner of CK, Sean Tan/Casiokingdom, have been contacted about the whole incident (including Casio-Scene opening)? I wonder what would be his say on the entire matter, as site founder?
As far as I can see Helder hasn't done anything wrong.
From reading discussions on multiple forums, here is what I understand.
1. Helder used an old backup of Casio Kingdom as base for Casio Scene. No hacking was involved
2. Helder had nothing to do with the website redirect, and even discouraged the use of it
3. Helder has been much much more polite than Matt everywhere
4. Helder tried to contact Matt in multiple ways regarding the new website, but he did not respond
Helder may have done some stuff wrong, but everything he did was to support the community. The response of Matt is just wrong, and it looks like he is not willing to listen at all.
From reading discussions on multiple forums, here is what I understand.
1. Helder used an old backup of Casio Kingdom as base for Casio Scene. No hacking was involved
2. Helder had nothing to do with the website redirect, and even discouraged the use of it
3. Helder has been much much more polite than Matt everywhere
4. Helder tried to contact Matt in multiple ways regarding the new website, but he did not respond
Helder may have done some stuff wrong, but everything he did was to support the community. The response of Matt is just wrong, and it looks like he is not willing to listen at all.
I agree, all matt is doing is going on a slander spree, and it makes him and his site look bad.
Support Casio-Scene against the attacks of matt @ matpac.co.uk ! For more information: Casio-Scene shuts down & Matt actions threads
Not only is he slandering helder he is also blocking all speech that may construed as being against him. Out of the 3 posts I have made on the site 2 have been deleted and one had half of the content removed. They were both civil and had polite requests or added to the conversation. One of the ones that was deleted was asking for the admins(matt) to give reasons for deletions of posts and moderation/censoring of posts less then 5 hours after I posted it it was deleted. I think that it may be best if casio-scene reopened as Casio Kingdom is no longer a viable community forum with matt in charge
I am glad that on Omnimaga (at least since Early 2007), Cemetech, TI-Planet and (from what I saw) Planet-Casio, when you state an opinion that is contrary to the site staff's overall point of view, your post doesn't get deleted nor edited. When I want to express my view on something politely, even if I get told to stop or to go back on-topic (regardless of if it's because the staff wants the discussion to end or if it's to hide my side of the story), I will still continue as long as I didn't fully finish. Afterward I am OK if a ban ensue with no post deletion: At least my view remains intact among opposing views.
That said, Matt can run the site the way he wants. He just won't get the same amount of support if members disagreeing with him or his actions are silenced.
That said, Matt can run the site the way he wants. He just won't get the same amount of support if members disagreeing with him or his actions are silenced.
jwalker, jimbauwens, et alia: I agree that opinions are certainly welcome, and I'm glad everyone is being more or less civil in this thread. However, if you feel that Matt is being slanderous, I do worry that those signatures of yours might be stooping to the same level that you're saying you see in others. Perhaps they're not the most calm and rational choice?
DJ_O wrote:
Would "Support Helder7 and save Casio-Scene" with a link to this thread be fine?
Note that I'm not telling anyone they have to change their signatures, otherwise I would have done it myself. I just don't think signatures libeling someone are particularly mature, and it really shouldn't be a personal issue anyway, should it? The point is that every programming community, be it the TI or the Casio community, needs respectful coders who can work together and exercise teamwork, so perhaps even the simple "Save Casio-Scene" would give the most impact.
I agree that perhaps linking to this thread in particular or the locked Omni thread from last week in our signatures might be slanderous, as we still don't know if Matt is really in the wrong regarding how he dealt with closing Casio-Scene and we may never fully know, but in the case of linking to posts regarding Matt's current actions (the badges and the strong anti-Helder7 campaing/brainwashing), I would think that it is not slander considering it's true, right?
Perhaps, but there's a difference between strong statements made in passion and anger and a mature response to a delicate and controversy-fraught situation, I think. 
As far as I know slander is when wrong information is given. In this case the statement is completely true.
I added it to my signature because someone requested it, and also I do not disagree with it nor see it as immature
I've been trying to collect some information regarding the whole issue, and here is what I found:
http://community.casiocalc.org/topic/6740-casio-kingdom-becomes-casio-scene/
-> Shows clearly that Helder did not 'hack' into Casio Kingdom and make it redirect. Why would he not recommend people using them if he made it ?
-> Only posts/applications/usernames/passwords up to 2009 are imported from a backup according to the above link and data on varius forums.
Helder joined Planet-casio and Omnimaga on 24 December of last year. He started discussions together with flyingfish on the 2nd of January this year to backup Casio Kingdom. First they were just downloading what they could from the old site but on 13 April Helder managed to import a backup from Casio Kingdom. The source of this backup is unknown, most likely it is the backup that is talked about here: http://www.110mb.com/forum/index.php?topic=49127. Also, that post dates back to three days before Sean stepped down and transfered ownership to Matt. Even if this wasn't the database, it could never have been dumped by Helder .. as so far as I know he wasn't active during this period.
Now, does anyone else have proof that Helder actually committed a crime ? In all the data I found nothing points to this.
Together with the fact that Casio-Scene is gone, I think my signature is perfectly to the point.
(I hope I don't seem rude in this post, it's not my intention)
I added it to my signature because someone requested it, and also I do not disagree with it nor see it as immature
I've been trying to collect some information regarding the whole issue, and here is what I found:
http://community.casiocalc.org/topic/6740-casio-kingdom-becomes-casio-scene/
-> Shows clearly that Helder did not 'hack' into Casio Kingdom and make it redirect. Why would he not recommend people using them if he made it ?
-> Only posts/applications/usernames/passwords up to 2009 are imported from a backup according to the above link and data on varius forums.
Helder joined Planet-casio and Omnimaga on 24 December of last year. He started discussions together with flyingfish on the 2nd of January this year to backup Casio Kingdom. First they were just downloading what they could from the old site but on 13 April Helder managed to import a backup from Casio Kingdom. The source of this backup is unknown, most likely it is the backup that is talked about here: http://www.110mb.com/forum/index.php?topic=49127. Also, that post dates back to three days before Sean stepped down and transfered ownership to Matt. Even if this wasn't the database, it could never have been dumped by Helder .. as so far as I know he wasn't active during this period.
Now, does anyone else have proof that Helder actually committed a crime ? In all the data I found nothing points to this.
Together with the fact that Casio-Scene is gone, I think my signature is perfectly to the point.
(I hope I don't seem rude in this post, it's not my intention)
Quote:
As far as I know slander is when wrong information is given
At least in France, slander ("diffamation", en français) refers to publishing statements that (could) affect negatively the reputation of someone. But legally, it doesn't matter one bit whether said statements are right (they describe facts) or wrong (they're lies).
Of course, morally, slander is even worse when it's based on lies than when it's based on facts.
Lionel Debroux wrote:
Quote:
As far as I know slander is when wrong information is given
At least in France, slander ("diffamation", en français) refers to publishing statements that (could) affect negatively the reputation of someone. But legally, it doesn't matter one bit whether said statements are right (they describe facts) or wrong (they're lies).
Of course, morally, slander is even worse when it's based on lies than when it's based on facts.
In the US, slander is intentionally publishing damaging statements that are untrue.
seana11 wrote:
Lionel Debroux wrote:
Quote:
As far as I know slander is when wrong information is given
At least in France, slander ("diffamation", en français) refers to publishing statements that (could) affect negatively the reputation of someone. But legally, it doesn't matter one bit whether said statements are right (they describe facts) or wrong (they're lies).
Of course, morally, slander is even worse when it's based on lies than when it's based on facts.
In the US, slander is intentionally publishing damaging statements that are untrue.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/slander
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/libel
DJ_O wrote:
Mass-e-mail was sent from CasioKingdom, apparently defaming Helder7, according to Lionel Debroux...
Do you have the text of this email? At this point, I almost wonder if it's better for the community as a whole to forget about the drama on both sides of this issue, and move on to established sites like Planete-Casio, Omnimaga, and Cemetech. If there's really something lacking between those sites, then perhaps an entirely new project free of all this nonsense would be best.
Actually it might be a false alarm. There are chances that the e-mail Lionel received is the password reset notice Matt sent to every member during the past few days (due to CK having 13000+ members, it takes a few days for all e-mails to be processed).
However, regardless of if a second e-mail was sent or not, the password reset one actually contained a link to the badges and potentially false claims about Helder7.
Here's the password reset e-mail that Helder7 got:
And yeah I agree. Like I said in the Omni thread, I prefer to only give news if something else happens and help people finding more information if they want some. Bad behavior from CK admin will only lead to poor site traffic for him anyway, likewise if he is ignored.
Is there any project about salvaging Casio-Scene archives (excluding files uploaded under CK) in the future, like with what United-TI wanted to do with the Calc.org archives in the past?
However, regardless of if a second e-mail was sent or not, the password reset one actually contained a link to the badges and potentially false claims about Helder7.
Here's the password reset e-mail that Helder7 got:
Quote:
Van: Casio Kingdom [mailto:newsletter@casiokingdom.org]
Verzonden: zaterdag 4 augustus 2012 14:45
Aan: Redacted Name
Onderwerp: Casio Kingdom is Back !
Hello Redacted Name,
Casio Kingdom is back!
Many of you have contacted me after hearing about the unfortunate incident where Helder Santos Estrada commited a crime and exploited vulnerabilities in the old forum software to steal your email addresses, passwords and private messages...
I understand your concern and want you to know that I am doing everything possible to fix this situation. I'm speaking with the data protection agencies and the police in Helder's area. Not only did Helder take the data and clone the Casio Kingdom website, but he also emailed many of you to say that "Casio Kingdom had moved to his new website"... this simply wasn't true and along with database and trademark infringement this is a more serious crime of 'passing off'.
You can keep up to date with the latest events regarding this case at:
http://www.casiokingdom.org/calculator-forum/site-news-announcements/casio-kingdom-recovery-(your-data-theft-concerns-and-action)/
In the meantime I hope that you can stop by the forum and make a comment either about what has happened or about the NEW Casio Kingdom. Things have changed a lot and I hope that you like them.
To help fix the security issue we now have new forum software and I have reset all CK members' passwords so that they are different to the ones that Helder Santos Estrada stole.
Your unique password is: Removed
Please use this together with your username: Redacted
You can login to the website and change your password here:
http://www.casiokingdom.org/calculator-forum/login/
As an incentive for you to stop by and post a message we are giving away very limited edition Casio Kingdom pin badges. Find more details here:
http://www.casiokingdom.org/calculator-forum/site-news-announcements/free-casio-kingdom-pin-badge/
CK still has some updates due. We are currently fixing broken links and replacing the old downloads system and I hope that when you stop by you can help with this effort.
Many thanks again for all your support and I hope to see you on casio Kingdom some time soon.
Matt - CK Admin
website: http://www.casiokingdom.org
twitter: http://www.twitter.com/CasioKingdom
*You can unsubscribe to these newsletters via your CK user control panel or by emailing me to request removal.
Verzonden: zaterdag 4 augustus 2012 14:45
Aan: Redacted Name
Onderwerp: Casio Kingdom is Back !
Hello Redacted Name,
Casio Kingdom is back!
Many of you have contacted me after hearing about the unfortunate incident where Helder Santos Estrada commited a crime and exploited vulnerabilities in the old forum software to steal your email addresses, passwords and private messages...
I understand your concern and want you to know that I am doing everything possible to fix this situation. I'm speaking with the data protection agencies and the police in Helder's area. Not only did Helder take the data and clone the Casio Kingdom website, but he also emailed many of you to say that "Casio Kingdom had moved to his new website"... this simply wasn't true and along with database and trademark infringement this is a more serious crime of 'passing off'.
You can keep up to date with the latest events regarding this case at:
http://www.casiokingdom.org/calculator-forum/site-news-announcements/casio-kingdom-recovery-(your-data-theft-concerns-and-action)/
In the meantime I hope that you can stop by the forum and make a comment either about what has happened or about the NEW Casio Kingdom. Things have changed a lot and I hope that you like them.
To help fix the security issue we now have new forum software and I have reset all CK members' passwords so that they are different to the ones that Helder Santos Estrada stole.
Your unique password is: Removed
Please use this together with your username: Redacted
You can login to the website and change your password here:
http://www.casiokingdom.org/calculator-forum/login/
As an incentive for you to stop by and post a message we are giving away very limited edition Casio Kingdom pin badges. Find more details here:
http://www.casiokingdom.org/calculator-forum/site-news-announcements/free-casio-kingdom-pin-badge/
CK still has some updates due. We are currently fixing broken links and replacing the old downloads system and I hope that when you stop by you can help with this effort.
Many thanks again for all your support and I hope to see you on casio Kingdom some time soon.
Matt - CK Admin
website: http://www.casiokingdom.org
twitter: http://www.twitter.com/CasioKingdom
*You can unsubscribe to these newsletters via your CK user control panel or by emailing me to request removal.
And yeah I agree. Like I said in the Omni thread, I prefer to only give news if something else happens and help people finding more information if they want some. Bad behavior from CK admin will only lead to poor site traffic for him anyway, likewise if he is ignored.
Is there any project about salvaging Casio-Scene archives (excluding files uploaded under CK) in the future, like with what United-TI wanted to do with the Calc.org archives in the past?
There have been several Casio coders from the ex-Casio Kingdom/Scene who have stopped by and introduced themselves here in the last couple of days, and I've encouraged them to upload their work to the archives. Unfortunately, we don't really have a place for fx-9860 programs, as few of our members are 9860 programmers.
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