I personally fully prefer the hub/spoke system.

However, what you're proposing is 2 separate lines of 2 separate 1-way lines; aka, 4 lines (1 to get there, one for empty cart to go back, and another pair for the other direction). How is that easier/cheaper than a simple timed loop that's individual between each spoke&hub?

Nope, just two tracks per spoke, one incoming, one outgoing. Switching at each end would properly handle occupied and unoccupied carts on the same tracks. I must be honest, I'm leaning towards the loop design at this point.

The main issues with a timed system is that the whole town isn't always loaded. The city is so large that someone standing in one part isn't even considered local to the other side of town. Similarly, the entire city is not always loaded at the same time, so the continually moving carts will end up flying into unloaded chunks and not coming back out until that chunk, and all the ones on the path in between are loaded. Unloaded chunks are not simulated for any reason while they are unloaded. Redstone does not work through an unloaded chunk, Minecarts don't move in an unloaded chunk, Liquids don't flow in an unloaded chunk etc. The only system that will be reliable is one which takes such problems into account. This requires any such system to require much more consideration than one in the real world.

Well, then I think we need to evaluate whether when standing in any portion of the city, there are a common subset of city chunks that are always loaded. If so, then that's where the hub has to be, and we have to do a hub/spoke system. According to what you're saying, a loop wouldn't be feasible.

"When wandering the world the nearest 81 chunks are loaded, arranged in a 9 by 9 grid around the player." -Minepedia Article: "Chunks"

That makes 4 chunks in every direction from the player. The Town Map would show that unless the system is designed with the hub and the stations all within 4 chunks of one another, it wont work at all either.

What I propose is expensive, but should be fairly reliable. Have each station have a cart in waiting in a secure station (ie. 1x1x1 with the entrance/exit blocked by a gate) requiring the user to press a call button. That button will then release the local car, and send a redstone message to advance the next car waiting in a interim storage facility. We will need several of these, and they will need to interact to fill empty ones as chunks become available. They system needs to be passive when not in use, and VERY active when in use. So we will need a system of 1 bit memory (cart present/cart missing) and storage holes to do a graduated, automated re-supply system. The idea is that every time a cart is called for, one is sent to replace it, and the memory is to act as a signal between chunks which were unloaded when the first cart was called as each chunk loads and becomes available.

We might be able to do something clever taking advantage of the redstone/chunk-loaded behavior to have each station have several cart-hold spots, and have the redstone detect when a station with no carts and one with some carts is loaded, or the hub and a station with no carts.

Okay, thanks to Elder's lengthy discussion with me (thanks again for your time), I actually understand his idea for thesubway.

Hub is a switch with a hold loop for multiple people, and the stations have 2 rails for people (1 each way). All inbound lines would merge into 1 track in the hub, and would go out on 1 merged track that would split out to the different stations.

However, due to the need for the mini-stations along the way that refill each other with empty carts (and the one on the end refills the station), I still see us needing 4 lines for every station (2 1-way passenger and 2 1-way cart refill). This will get a little costly, but meh, it's not like iron is hard to come by.

I personally can't see much of anything wrong with this. The hub would have 1 cyclotron/accelerator to spit people out, and each station would have one for the hub-bound track, which would drastically cut down on gold costs (since it IS a little harder to come by). Please correct me if I have yet again confused some part of the idea, but I think that's it, in essence.

From tinkering with pistons with some lads from Mufin's server, I hear red stone doesn't work the same in 1.7. Might want to hold off on any big Red Stone projects.

Whether or not it'll be fixed to it's original properties is uncertain. But the name that is Notch was cursed a few times.

I think the issue is how redstone effects, or doesn't effect pistons the same way as other blocks. pistons seem to be a bit more picky when it comes to where the "wires" are hooked up to them.

Comic, Jonimus, can you be more specific? Better yet, shall we all jump on a 1.7 server today and do a bit of exploring? I have a bunch of ideas for different piston contraptions, and I'm curious to see how many existing redstone design principles have been broken.

Is there a way to set different ownership or perms in the BD than there is above ground? 'Cause I'd like to test some of the subway ideas but need a large, flat expanse to build the tracks in.

On my plot, someone put cobblestone where I was standing, so I suffocated to death, and then when I come back to get my stuff, I see that someone took the liberty of digging in my plot as well. Perms are set to denyall, so it had to have been either Elder, Kerm, Pizza, or a hacker (but I was exactly the way I was when I logged off at, so it wasn't anyone using my account).

The one who mined the 4x4 area to bedrock must have been me, I checked where the bedrock starts, but I wasn't the one who suffocated you.

Sure! I'll run my server for you guys.

Beta, I think you are making too big a deal of that, and, IMHO, did not deserve a double post. You died, even if you lost something, you know the mods and such, just get yor stuff back.

Except I'm not, player - only 3 people could have done it, and all 3 of those are people I trust, so.......

And if I did lose something, I can't just get it back without working for it again. I was frustrated at the fact that I was dying on what was supposed to be protected area.

As for the physical double post, I'd be more than happy to combine them now that it has been noticed. It seemed the most reliable way to bring the issue up.

*Or not - looks like I don't even have the privies of deleting my own posts?

I'm sure it was an innocent mistake, like a stairway constructed to escape from a newly-dug area. Pizzaboy and I were both working on completing my two plots, so we probably strayed into your plot as well. It's also extremely likely the server glitched; I always start suffocating whenever I move during the [Server] Saving map... process.

You do, but are unable to delete posts after someone has posted. You can only delete your last post in a thread, given no one has posted after you.

Would you like a Moderator (such as myself) to combine both posts?

Fair enough. And thanks for deleting that post, Kerm.

Also, regarding the train question, you're welcome to build on any suitable area in the BD that you can find; the town permissions combined with the few town members who have been around make it very unlikely someone would decide to steal the tracks.

Then I shall do just that.