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I'd like to ask that when one tokenizes, it gets rid of the * over the name so one knows they have saved the file. I always freak out when I go to close, because it says I haven't saved, so I have to cancel and tokenize things again and then close so I know I have.
Strictly speaking, you haven't saved the file, you've just tokenized it. Saving is for when you save the txt file, so it's still not saved when you tokenize.
merthsoft wrote:
Strictly speaking, you haven't saved the file, you've just tokenized it. Saving is for when you save the txt file, so it's still not saved when you tokenize.

And this is the feature I don't get in your program. Why would one prefer to save the program into a txt rather than in 8xp ? According to me, the "save" feature should be removed and replaced by the "tokenize" one. Or at least, exchange the priorities, saving into txt would not get rid of the * while tokenizing would.

Note that this is only my opinion, maybe everyone else prefers to save into a txt, so it may be a good idea to wait for answers before deciding to change anything in your program or not.
Hayleia wrote:
merthsoft wrote:
Strictly speaking, you haven't saved the file, you've just tokenized it. Saving is for when you save the txt file, so it's still not saved when you tokenize.

And this is the feature I don't get in your program. Why would one prefer to save the program into a txt rather than in 8xp ? According to me, the "save" feature should be removed and replaced by the "tokenize" one. Or at least, exchange the priorities, saving into txt would not get rid of the * while tokenizing would.
For the same reason that in Visual Studio or Netbeans or Eclipse you edit text files and not the executable directly. I spent a ton of time adding features like comments and preprocessor directives, and despite the fact that no ones seems to want to use them, I'm going to keep the paradigm as it is to try to get people to use them. If you save it as a text file you have access to more features, so why wouldn't you just save it as a text file and then tokenize once you're ready?
merthsoft wrote:
For the same reason that in Visual Studio or Netbeans or Eclipse you edit text files and not the executable directly.

But I am not editing the executable, I am editing an Axe source Wink

merthsoft wrote:
I spent a ton of time adding features like comments and preprocessor directives, and despite the fact that no ones seems to want to use them, I'm going to keep the paradigm as it is to try to get people to use them.

I don't say get rid of all of this, I just proposed to keep working with txt format but save directly in 8xp.

merthsoft wrote:
If you save it as a text file you have access to more features, so why wouldn't you just save it as a text file and then tokenize once you're ready?

For a very stupid reason: Windows 7 automatically reorganises files by name.
The problem is that Axe sources usually have subprograms as includes, and I need to drag and drop them all into Wabbitemu to compile, so I just make them with names that all start by the same letter so Windows 7 puts them each one next to the other. And the problem with saving as txt is that it inserts txt files between my well organised files, txt files that Wabbitemu don't want.
You'll say "use regedit and caetera to disable reorganisation". I already did it on my PC. But I also code on my sister's laptop that I don't have the right to modify.
Hayleia wrote:
merthsoft wrote:
For the same reason that in Visual Studio or Netbeans or Eclipse you edit text files and not the executable directly.

But I am not editing the executable, I am editing an Axe source Wink
You're editing a tokenized TI-BASIC file, even if it's being interpreted by something else afterward. It's the same idea.

Hayleia wrote:
merthsoft wrote:
I spent a ton of time adding features like comments and preprocessor directives, and despite the fact that no ones seems to want to use them, I'm going to keep the paradigm as it is to try to get people to use them.

I don't say get rid of all of this, I just proposed to keep working with txt format but save directly in 8xp.
I don't understand. You can't work in txt format and then save directly to 8xp and still have those features.

Hayleia wrote:
merthsoft wrote:
If you save it as a text file you have access to more features, so why wouldn't you just save it as a text file and then tokenize once you're ready?

For a very stupid reason: Windows 7 automatically reorganises files by name.
The problem is that Axe sources usually have subprograms as includes, and I need to drag and drop them all into Wabbitemu to compile, so I just make them with names that all start by the same letter so Windows 7 puts them each one next to the other. And the problem with saving as txt is that it inserts txt files between my well organised files, txt files that Wabbitemu don't want.
You'll say "use regedit and caetera to disable reorganisation". I already did it on my PC. But I also code on my sister's laptop that I don't have the right to modify.
I wouldn't suggest doing anything in the registry, I would suggest tokenizing to a different directory, though I'm aware TokenIDE doesn't make that easy. Maybe once I have the project infrastructure actually in place that'll be an easier thing.

I suppose with the way I have it set up, the abstraction isn't really that easy, so I propose that for now I make it so building it clears the star (ctrl+s will still save as a text file, though, and also clear the star--I'll probably make building also save if you're editing from a text file or have already saved a text file, but not if you haven't). Or perhaps if you opened an 8xp you have to click "convert to txt" or something to have it as a txt, and the "building" will only be a separate thing if you opened a txt or project. How does that sound? In summary, when you open an 8xp, saving builds the 8xp. If you open a txt, saving saves the txt.
As an alternative idea, what about saving the program as an 8XP, but saving the comments and preprocessor directives separately from the code?

As you probably know, all 8X* files can hold as many programs as you'd like (as long as the file size doesn't pass 65592). My idea is to put the program code in the first variable space (TokenIDE generates only one at a time anyway), and create a dummy variable, possibly invalid, in the second spot. This dummy var wouldn't actually get loaded on the calculator, but you can use it to hold anything you'd like—for example, a series of comments. You could structure the comments in a way that you can easily insert them into the appropriate place when opening the 8XP with TokenIDE (or a compatible editor), such as by tagging each line with a location word and a size byte.

That way, saving would tokenize straight to an 8XP (personally I'd like that as well), and you get to keep all the features you currently need the text file for! Smile

I'm not sure what the dummy variable should look like for TI Connect and TiLP to ignore them without a complaint, but if you want me to I can think on it and do some tests for ya.

EDIT: It should be even easier than that. If I remember correctly, TI Connect just ignores everything past the checksum, so you can just stick your extra stuff there!
Deep Thought wrote:
As an alternative idea, what about saving the program as an 8XP, but saving the comments and preprocessor directives separately from the code?

As you probably know, all 8X* files can hold as many programs as you'd like (as long as the file size doesn't pass 65592). My idea is to put the program code in the first variable space (TokenIDE generates only one at a time anyway), and create a dummy variable, possibly invalid, in the second spot. This dummy var wouldn't actually get loaded on the calculator, but you can use it to hold anything you'd like—for example, a series of comments. You could structure the comments in a way that you can easily insert them into the appropriate place when opening the 8XP with TokenIDE (or a compatible editor), such as by tagging each line with a location word and a size byte.

That way, saving would tokenize straight to an 8XP (personally I'd like that as well), and you get to keep all the features you currently need the text file for! Smile

I'm not sure what the dummy variable should look like for TI Connect and TiLP to ignore them without a complaint, but if you want me to I can think on it and do some tests for ya.

EDIT: It should be even easier than that. If I remember correctly, TI Connect just ignores everything past the checksum, so you can just stick your extra stuff there!
This seems like a bad idea. As soon as you send the program to you calc you'd lose all the meta data, right? So once you copy it back on to the comp and override the existing program you've lost everything. Sure, editing the txt makes it hard to program on the calc and the comp, but at least the chance of losing all your comments and stuff is minimized. That being said, maybe it's unlikely that someone would do that, since they would know they had all that metadata in there. I also feel like people won't want to distribute the 8xp with all that meta data on it--even if it's just on the computer, people tend to want to minimize the size. On top of that, it would be non-trivial to map the data back onto the file, unless I just store a straight copy of the data, which also seems like a bad idea. I'll keep thinking about it, though.
merthsoft wrote:
I propose that for now I make it so building it clears the star

This would be a great implementation so that we know we tokenized (because after we tokenized once, each time we tokenize again, the popup doesn't appear so basically, we see nothing happen and don't know if it was tokenized) and so that there is not the apparition of the "really wish to quit" Smile

merthsoft wrote:
In summary, when you open an 8xp, saving builds the 8xp. If you open a txt, saving saves the txt.

This would be perfect Very Happy

When I learn that either one or the other of those ideas is implemented, that would make my day Wink
merthsoft wrote:
This seems like a bad idea. As soon as you send the program to you calc you'd lose all the meta data, right? So once you copy it back on to the comp and override the existing program you've lost everything. Sure, editing the txt makes it hard to program on the calc and the comp, but at least the chance of losing all your comments and stuff is minimized. That being said, maybe it's unlikely that someone would do that, since they would know they had all that metadata in there. I also feel like people won't want to distribute the 8xp with all that meta data on it--even if it's just on the computer, people tend to want to minimize the size. On top of that, it would be non-trivial to map the data back onto the file, unless I just store a straight copy of the data, which also seems like a bad idea. I'll keep thinking about it, though.
What about having two forms of tokenizing—one with the extra stuff for "development," and one without for "release"? That's sorta like the way it is now, with saving as TXT and building as 8XP, except that you'd be able to test your programs at any time.

When I use TokenIDE for a project, I'm always using an emulator to test, and I don't transfer my files back from there. But that's just me, and I don't use comments anyway, so I don't know if that would apply to anyone else.
I don't think anyone uses the comments except me. I think for the sake of simplicity, I'll just stick to the original idea.
Any possibility of having Tokens display the picture variables in the tabs?
That's definitely a planned feature, but it's a big overhaul. I can look into moving it up in priority, though.
Just whenever. I ran into needing it today, to determine what pic var was what. Just took a little bit of time with wabbit.
merthsoft wrote:
On top of all the other things I should add to it, I should add greyscale sprite editing.

This is a very good idea, but in case you don't know, I warn you that there are several types of greyscale in Axe:
- 3 levels with alpha
- 3 levels without alpha
- 4 levels without alpha (and there is no 4 levels with alpha)
merthsoft wrote:
I don't think anyone uses the comments except me. I think for the sake of simplicity, I'll just stick to the original idea.


I like the way you have comments/text saving set up. It makes things convenient for me to have those files available.

Though they don't seem popular for some reason.
It's good to hear someone uses them! How thrown off would you be if opening an 8xp and hitting ctrl-s actually compiled instead of saved? You'll still be able to export to txt if you need to.
merthsoft wrote:
It's good to hear someone uses them! How thrown off would you be if opening an 8xp and hitting ctrl-s actually compiled instead of saved? You'll still be able to export to txt if you need to.


That wouldn't throw me off too much, really.

Could I request that Ctrl-a-S saves as TXT?

EDIT: omg haha I meant Ctrl-SHIFT-S

I was wondering why it was censored

EDIT 2: So this is the way I understand it...

You can open either a TXT or an 8XP file.
In the editor, there is functionality for comments, etc, which is only preserved in text. Honestly, if it were my design, I'd rather the text be the main file, so saving it with ctrl-s would be ideal, and compiling it could be like, ctrl-shift-s.

But either way works, I'm just afraid that if I export it as 8xp, I may forget to save the actual source, comments and all. Whereas I could make many edits to the source and not compile it as often as people might think, ya'know? Honestly, I could go either way on it.

But don't let everyone tell you those features aren't being used! They're nice to have Smile
[21:41] <@tifreak8x> Merth, Tokens won't open a file if I right click on it and tell windows to open it with tokens
[21:41] <@tifreak8x> but if I open tokens first, then drag and drop, it opens just fine
[21:41] <@Merth> Oh dear.
[21:41] <@Merth> What have I done.


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It seems to work fine for me. Does it give you an error?
  
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