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Exactly, it's not like the money he's charging is going into his pocket, or even that he's padding the amount. He's just charging you exactly what the host is charging him to add another developer onto the repository. Razz
I'm back Very Happy

Thanks to elrunethe2nd, who decided to invite me back into the convo via PM.



elrunethe2nd wrote:
Better I make a big deal then keep quiet and this continues having an indefinite finish date.
I know I touched on this before, but I want to make a point here. Where did this get you last time? If I remember correctly, did you not get all immature, hot-headed, and crazy in SAX and eventually banned or something? Where did that land you? If FreeBuild hasn't made progress to your standards since the last stunt you pulled, what makes you think coming on here and complaining again is going to get you anywhere?

elrunethe2nd wrote:
I like how people aren't actually allowed to ask questions without being mobbed by the developers fans. Stand down and let me talk to the people whose opinions I actually want,
Asking questions is far different then you coming on here and complaining. One is less provocative and ignorant. And believe me, we're very open to questions on this forum.

Go back and read your original post and come back and tell me if you were asking a question or provoking. Your sarcastic, sardonic, and enticing comments are what brought this conversation to where it stands now. Don't act like you came on here throwing rose pedals on the path and we came through with a bulldozer and destroyed your little forest. That's a load of bullshit.

elrunethe2nd wrote:
and stop throwing insults, because the angrier and less objective you get, the more ridiculous you seem to me. You're waving your arms and making this a personal fight of yours when it has positively nothing to do with you.
I do it for the sport. Don't you? Confused Besides, was I not mentioned in the original post? I think I get some leeway to snap back, don't I? Smile

elrunethe2nd wrote:
I don't even think you have your name in the game's credits for doing something as trivial as I did.
I'd like to think I could have a grander title over my name in the credits Smile
At least I stirred up the development of this (without confrontation) a while ago after it had truly died down (not just slowed down) and I showed an inclination to learn C++ and purchase a license (and would have been the only one of any of us to own one) until elfprince13 came to the rescue (Very Happy).

elrunethe2nd wrote:
Don't lose sight of the point here. If you want to be a major developer of TBG and get engine access, you need to pay for it!
The developers are demanding money from people in order to let them do significant modification to the game, or is that not self explanatory! To say that, despite the fact Elfprince wants $1.50 per month (or whatnot) for engine access and then say this is not a demand for money is insane. It is denial of what was plainly said.
How am I losing sight of the point when you missed the boat all together?

Elfprince is simply the middle man for the service providing the closed repository services. You use the word 'demand' so harshly. Stop continuing to bring to our attention the fact that Elfprince is requiring $1.5/mon to forward to the company providing the service as if he was doing so unjustly. Let it go already. $1.5/mon, again, is chump-change. It's nothing. If someone is willing to purchase a license for $100 (or whatever it costs now) I'm sure they can pay a total of $18 a year for the repository service.

As a developer myself, with at least the original inclination to dive into this project, I wouldn't have skipped a beat to pay $18 to develop this. Especially if it's a project I favor. Better to pay $18 to a project I want to see flourish, then to pay the same to a project I don't care about. Again, you're not a developer. You don't know these things, and you certainly can't continue to sit here and act like you do. You're a consumer. Stop being so close-minded.

So, stop acting as if he's pocketing this money. He sees none of this money.

elrunethe2nd wrote:
Well, it affects me as part of the intended audience, and a representative of a greater audience not here today.
elrune, let's cut the bullshit. You're not the intended audience, because you don't have the credentials. If the "greater audience" isn't here to debate this, then go get them. But honestly, you're pulling shit out of your ass at this point.

elrunethe2nd wrote:
Don't play teacher with me, that is just toxic icing on an already bad cake,
Then stop eating it. You shouldn't have taken a bite in the first place. There was plenty of "good" cake over in the "How to nicely check up on a project's development by asking questions instead of enticing" isle until you poisoned it all. I just figured "Why not?" since you already did the honors.

elrunethe2nd wrote:
and a tone like that is simply trying to incite me into a rage,
Neither my intent, nor my problem. Go back and read your original post and tell me if it isn't enticing. You'd be lying through your teeth if you told me it wasn't.

elrunethe2nd wrote:
which won't work and is just you moving this thread to the ultimate goal of a lock rather than a solution.
That's what I'm waiting for.
Quote:
Quote:
elrunethe2nd wrote:
Well, it affects me as part of the intended audience, and a representative of a greater audience not here today.


elrune, let's cut the bullshit. You're not the intended audience, because you don't have the credentials. If the "greater audience" isn't here to debate this, then go get them. But honestly, you're pulling shit out of your ass at this point.


*Spits coffee out* What? Elrune is not the intended audience?! I thought this was a building game, where you build stuff out of bricks? Or am I mistaken?

This "greater audience" (Or what is of it) would be ToB since almost no one from Ldraw is here. Spaceninja is from ToB, so, yeah.

And for the people from ToB who have not heard/seen this thread, they/we have started work on the next version of ToB.
Lucas W wrote:
*Spits coffee out* What? Elrune is not the intended audience?! I thought this was a building game, where you build stuff out of bricks? Or am I mistaken?

This "greater audience" (Or what is of it) would be ToB since almost no one from Ldraw is here. Spaceninja is from ToB, so, yeah.
*facepalm* I'm referring to the developer audience. You know, the ones who have possible relevance to the development of Freebuild? If you're not a developer with the credentials to work on Freebuild (or at least the willingness to obtain these credentials) then you're not the "intended audience".

For the game, the "intended audience" refers to anyone who is looking for a game that allows you to build stuff out of bricks. However, just because you are the end-user, doesn't mean you're entitled to the same respects as a developer is.

I apologize this got "misconstrued," but I was under the impression that elrunethe2nd and I were on the same page, and that he understood the difference between arguing as a developer and arguing as an end-user. And that when you're not a developer, it would be ignorant to argue as if you were one.

Lucas W wrote:
And for the people from ToB who have not heard/seen this thread, they/we have started work on the next version of ToB.
Congratulations. In my opinion, previous versions were bloated (I didn't enjoy the excessive amount of features, in my opinion). However, I like to see you guys going somewhere with it.

If they're too busy working on TOB to come on here and back up their "representative," then it obviously is something of less importance to them, and therefore has no purpose being discussed here any longer, unless someone wants to continue to debate on the subject when they have little-to-no experience in the matter.





In a PM titled 'What the hell did you just say, just now.', elrunethe2nd wrote:
I cannot believe you just accused the one of the best builders out there of not having the credentials. You've flipped, lost it, gone over the far side of the hill looking for the rainbow, performed tricks for treats one too many times, however you like to say it. You're freaking insane. I mean, what the hell. When it comes to visualising things and making that vision happen with the little digital blocks, I do amazing things.
Would you calm down and not flip a shit and at least have the balls to continue to contest me in the thread and not via PM? You claimed to be apart of the intended audience on a subject regarding developers. You are not a developer, elrunethe2nd, and certainly not one with the credentials required to work on Freebuild.

I have high respect for you as a builder, elrunethe2nd, but not as a debater. You're lousy. You're making a fool of yourself.

Now, I'm not continuing this immature debate through PMs, so stop sending them or I will continue to reply to them in this thread (where the original discuss started, and continued discussion belongs).




In a PM titled 'RE: Request', in response to elrunethe2nd's (quoted) PM titled 'Request', swivelgames wrote:
elrunethe2nd wrote:
How about not announcing you're finished when you still are capable of squeezing out another part to your rant.
It gets us sane people all nervous. Don't know what you're gonna do next, pulling all these quick moves.

I like to keep it interesting Wink


I was actually going to keep to my word after that last one I posted and be done with the conversation, since I thought I had enough fun in it, but now that you've shown interest (because of this little poke of yours via PM) I might keep going. I'm actually enjoying this, to be honest. I've had quite a bit of stress lately, and it's nice to blow off a little steam on close-minded and ignorant trolls. Smile



Good Idea
Elrune HAS developed for TBG.
Lucas W wrote:
Elrune HAS developed for TBG.
This does not exclude him from the fact that he is not currently and cannot presently become an engine developer for Freebuild. Neither does he have the credentials to do so, nor has he shown any inclination to be willing to. Therefore your argument that he has developed for TBG is irrelevant to the fact that he is not in the position to argue.

I apologize for I still have not made myself clear enough. He claimed to be the intended audience regarding a suggestion he made on a subject matter that concerned those who have the proper credentials to work on the Freebuild engine and are interested in doing so. Regardless of whether or not he had the proper credentials and was interested in developing for Freebuild as a software developer to work on the engine, his sarcastic and sardonic statements were more then just a "suggestion" but a rude and immature way of expressing a point on a subject he had no extensive knowledge.

Your argument is false. You're making a fool of yourself. Stop posting.
swivelgames wrote:
Lucas W wrote:
Elrune HAS developed for TBG.
This does not exclude him from the fact that he is not currently and cannot presently become an engine developer for Freebuild. Neither does he have the credentials to do so, nor has he shown any inclination to be willing to. Therefore your argument that he has developed for TBG is irrelevant to the fact that he is not in the position to argue.

I apologize for I still have not made myself clear enough. He claimed to be the intended audience regarding a suggestion he made on a subject matter that concerned those who have the proper credentials to work on the Freebuild engine and are interested in doing so. Regardless of whether or not he had the proper credentials and was interested in developing for Freebuild as a software developer to work on the engine, his sarcastic and sardonic statements were more then just a "suggestion" but a rude and immature way of expressing a point on a subject he had no extensive knowledge.

Your argument is false. You're making a fool of yourself. Stop posting.


Why can't he argue? The community has as much importance to the development of a game that will (Hopefully) be used by many, many people as the developers do (Besides, of course, the ability to code)

While Elrune might not be able to code in C++ or TorqueScript, he may be able to help develop new people's knowledge of the engine.

Do I fit this "suit"? I helped develop the dynamic datablock loader of the engine by separating each file into each part. (Hey, I still developed apart of the engine).
Elrune, there are two HUGE differences between Blockland and Freebuild.

First, Blockland was a retail product. The developers had the promise of money coming their way, and that was a huge motivation. Freebuild will never see any money; it's a free project some guys are working on in their spare time. I've also been under the impression that Eric Hartman(Badspot) and Ben Garney(nice guy actually, unlike BS) were on the payroll of Garage Games while developing Blockland, which would make it their job, not just a side project.

Second, from what I understand, 90% of Blockland is recycled Garage Games code. A lot of what goes into Freebuild is written from scratch, particularly the LDraw rendering, that essential component which has never before been done in torque.


I understand you're frustrated that it seems like nothing is getting done. Keep in mind Elfprince and the others also had school, which Blockland's developers did not have, which means they have even less time than they did to work on this project. Now that school is over(I think Kerm may have actually graduated from College this year, but I'm not sure), I have a feeling we'll see much more development over the summer months, like we did last year, during Chirstmas Vacation.
Now that... That is a somewhat viable, and respectable argument Smile

Lucas W wrote:
Why can't he argue? The community has as much importance to the development of a game that will (Hopefully) be used by many, many people as the developers do (Besides, of course, the ability to code)
Indeed it does, and I respect that. However, the topic in question that we're debating most heavily on currently is elrunethe2nd having the proper ability to argue in the place of a developer with the proper credentials for which the topic might concern. Answer me this, if elrunethe2nd cannot legally work on it, and doesn't even want to put in the effort to become legally able to work on it, then why does the topic concern him? Not to mention the fact that elrunethe2nd didn't even address the matter politely, more-or-less know the facts until he was buried under them in the heat of debate. This is why I stress you learn the facts before contending someone rudely.

It is foolish to start a battle with another without coming to the fight fully prepared. Unless you know exactly what you're talking about, chances are you're not going to get anywhere acting rudely. Hell, even if you knew what you were talking about and you acted rudely, chances are you're not going to get very far.

If elrunethe2nd had expressed his concerns in a straight-forward and sincere way, this wouldn't have gotten this ugly. Instead he took the sarcastic and sardonic approach and enticed his intended audience, which was his first mistake.

Lucas W wrote:
While Elrune might not be able to code in C++ or TorqueScript, he may be able to help develop new people's knowledge of the engine.

Do I fit this "suit"? I helped develop the dynamic datablock loader of the engine by separating each file into each part. (Hey, I still developed apart of the engine).
Sadly, No. If elfprince were requesting you or Elrune to pay $1.5, then that would be something to question (and in such a case, a friendly and non-argumentative approach would be best until the facts were known; Then, when the facts become apparent then the situation would be handled accordingly). As far as my knowledge goes, this isn't the case. Elfprince and CyberPrime have the ability to delegate work to you all, but that doesn't include access to the closed repository. So, the fact still remains that the $1.5/mon fee for accessing the repository does not concern you.

I must point out, by the way, that the little things go a long way. What you're referring to is delegation, not full-unhindered-access to the closed repository to read and tamper the whole source at will. That being said, I'm sure your efforts were much appreciated, but again the topic regarding the $1.5/mon charge does not concern either of you.

Now, if you're looking to learn C++ and get a license, then go do those two and then a proper inquiry maybe issued on the matter. Razz





To those tuned in on the discussion, the debate continued last night over SAX.
Lucas W wrote:
Quote:
No one on this site, that programs for this or any of the other projects, are getting paid to do it.


They are if you code for TBG.


No, I have invested $180 of my personal funds into this project, and have received exactly $0 in return. Assembla gets $1.50 a month though.
DShiznit wrote:
[...](I think Kerm may have actually graduated from College this year, but I'm not sure)[...]
For what it's worth, Kerm graduated college with his Bachelors last year, and his Masters this year, and launched directly into writing code for the group he's starting his PhD with.
Additionally, in response to your complaints about the website, I think it's fair to say that we hope to educate our audience and have them motivated to learn about computer programming and other nerdy pursuits in order to get involved, rather than pandering to a lowest-common denominator. Look at the difference between these forums and the RBL forums.
Ok, what, precisely, is TBG? A block building game? What is so special about it that everyone's coming here to whine about it?
FreeBuild: The Builder's Game (commonly abbreviated as FB or TBG), is a multiplayer lego-themed sandbox game.
elfprince13 wrote:
FreeBuild: The Builder's Game (commonly abbreviated as FB or TBG), is a multiplayer lego-themed sandbox game.


and what's special about it? It's not the only one of it's kind, I figured.
elrunethe2nd wrote:
Mapar007 wrote:
'The developers' would have posted if they weren't steering clear from this overly counter-productive thread. (see other locked thread)

This sort of comment is steering this thread to a lock. Tifreak isn't a TBG developer, but a forum moderator, and was simply ending a shouting match in that thread.


Thank you for realizing this. Wasn't exactly nice when I was compared to someone who deleted threads when they weren't being worshiped. Wink
A long and storied history with much drama. Also, in-process implementation of support for the LDraw format, and buildable vehicles.
elfprince13 wrote:
A long and storied history with much drama. Also, in-process implementation of support for the LDraw format, and buildable vehicles.


You've been working on LDraw for the last year.
I spent a week and a half actually working on it, and about 3 weeks indirectly working on it through picking apart the rendering system (which is where I still am)
elfprince13 wrote:
I spent a week and a half actually working on it, and about 3 weeks indirectly working on it through picking apart the rendering system (which is where I still am)
And didn't that also help you get a better handle on where performance problems are and are not coming from, and what you can do about it?
  
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