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swivelgames wrote:
you're just pissing everybody off.

No.

You are so far the only one that's 'getting pissed off.'
Also I'd like to apologize my behaviour on the previous thread that just got locked. I'll replace the message with this:

Quote:
There hasn't been any major updates on TBG for a long time so this is a small notice for the developers.
Just ignore Swivel. He's kind of unstable.
elrunethe2nd wrote:
You... seriously believe people would make something that noone would use? That is a stretch of the imagination. You cannot factor out audience. It is simply impossible. This isn't where you are carving a statue, and it is what you want to express or bring to the piece of stone, and not what you want it to evoke in people.
You... seriously believe that you're going to be successful in telling software developers what they do and don't do? Are you software developer? I'm the same way Mapar007 over here who's developed quite a bit (I presume) but never once released one of his projects or used them after development. Just go look through the pages and pages of CMSs I've worked on. Of course they all got to a milestone that was satisfactory and of course none of them were released. You can factor out the audience. It's pretty simple, really.

To some of us it is like carving a statue, and not what you want to evoke in people. I cannot speak for all software developers, and certainly you cannot either. That was quite an ignorant assumption you made, elrunethe2nd.

elrunethe2nd wrote:
Swivelgames wrote:
the game's audience is icing on the cake

The developers may be able to decide to develop this game however they like, but we're the audience. We'll be doing the developers a favor by being the people who will play, test and ensure this game has a community after it is finished or released in a playable form. Surely that counts for something. We haven't left yet because I guess some feeble part of the collective TOB players wants to desperately believe that something is happening here, that TBG is a reality and not a pipedream comparable to Duke Nukem Forever or a similar project.
Seriously, dude, unlike Duke Nukem Forever, we're neither getting paid for this nor are we necessarily looking at an end goal (specifically). Stop talking about doing the developers favors because right now you're certainly doing the opposite. It does indeed count for something when you have others waiting on the other end of the finish line eager to see what the finished product is, but when it's a paced project the last thing you want is an audience that will get frustrated and impatient with you. Do the developers a favor, and stop complaining about it. This isn't about censorship, this isn't about quieting those who cry out, or any of that b/s. This is about getting you to stfu so the developers can do some work. And about putting you in the position of the developer working on a paced project. It's not your project, and you're certainly not managing or organizing it, so who are you to sit there and demand materials or a deadline?

elrunethe2nd wrote:
I don't feel like shelling out a certain amount per month to get engine access, no. Please don't tell me that that makes me unreasonable. I do believe I suggested a free alternative.
Regarding that, Elfprince, I was serious about my suggestion.
If you even had the ability to work on the engine (the knowledge and credentials to) you wouldn't "shell out" (contribute) a mere $1.5/month to get your name in the credits of a game (regardless of its success) and put in effort towards the end product you're so impatiently demanding for? That's a little screwy... Because I certainly would. Heck, you'd even have earned the right to brag and say that because of you the project got finished faster, and it was the way it turned out.

Simply using the fact that the engine source is in a closed repository as an excuse for not being able to work on the game engine is, simply put, retarded. When you neither own a license issued by an unassociated company nor have the ability to code in C++ you're the last person with the right to complain about it being closed or open sourced. The scripts are open sourced because they are not bound by law to be closed. Work on them. Not once have I heard the developers advise you people not to.
Swivelgames wrote:
I haven't seen you break a sweat over the development of this game engine yet. (or even show an inclination to be willing to).
Again, given the knowledge that you neither have the mental capability to work on the engine nor have the proper credentials to, you obviously haven't broken a sweat over the engine. Using the fact that the engine is closed source is not a valid argument. I haven't seen you willing to learn C++ or purchase a license either.



And whoever keeps saying that the developers of TBG/FreeBuild are being paid need to understand something before the continue on making themselves look like an idiot: The developers are not getting paid for TBG/FreeBuild. If you think contributing money as a developer and getting paid are the same thing you are sadly mistaken. The former is an investment to better then development, just like buying a license for TGE. The developers aren't seeing any of that money, therefore they're not getting paid for it. Because of this, the developers have a negative cashflow. For you to claim that they have a positive cashflow because of this project is simply absurd and you need to rethink your logic before spewing off shit you don't understand. All you're doing is making yourself look like an idiot.
swivelgames wrote:
you need to rethink your logic before spewing off shit you don't understand. All you're doing is making yourself look like an idiot.

Again, no.

Elrune just gave valuable tips in his first post and all you do is insult him and others. Don't you see what you're doing?
It's you. You are the one here spewing off the negativity!

Stop. Stop fighting and do something.
Again, regardless of if he continue arguing or not (which he is not doing alone) he can still decide WHEN and IF he wants to work on the game. You cannot force him to do what you want, even if what he does does not satisfy you nor the other players.

People are free to do whatever they want with their lives and whining constantly will change NOTHING.

This is not to mention Swivel has been around for years and contributed a lot to Cemetech.

Quote:
Swivelgames
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1973


Quote:
SpaceNinja
Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 25
And when I say that DJ, I am "derailing" the conversatio
Nah, I don't think I went far enough yet. I have yet to blow up at any of those trolls. That said, I have nothing more to say because I am pretty sure SpaceNinja, Lucas W and elrune2nd think they are pefect, never do anything wrong and that only their opinion is right, no one else's, so it is pretty much a waste of time to continue arguing, as Swivelgames and a few others already gave their counter arguments.

I'm not gonna tell the others what to do but I think it might be best to just leave these guy whine alone and ignore them. I think we fed the trolls enough now Razz
Anyways, could someone please start making the game? I could help a little. :3
Ah. good, you have asked nicely this time


That is how you should have asked the first time around :/

Dont worry, I was like that aat one time, just take this as advice, request for something the way you did above Spaceninja
SpaceNinja wrote:
Anyways, could someone please start making the game? I could help a little. :3
Well I have my dedi started back up, if you and some others play on it I'm sure you guys can find bugs and such to fix so we can make the game even better.
DJ Omnimaga wrote:

This is not to mention Swivel has been around for years and contributed a lot to Cemetech.
And how much has he contributed to Freebuild? (Valid question, not sarcasm)

swivelgames wrote:
Seriously, dude, unlike Duke Nukem Forever, we're neither getting paid for this nor are we necessarily looking at an end goal (specifically). Stop talking about doing the developers favors because right now you're certainly doing the opposite. It does indeed count for something when you have others waiting on the other end of the finish line eager to see what the finished product is, but when it's a paced project the last thing you want is an audience that will get frustrated and impatient with you. Do the developers a favor, and stop complaining about it. This isn't about censorship, this isn't about quieting those who cry out, or any of that b/s. This is about getting you to stfu so the developers can do some work. And about putting you in the position of the developer working on a paced project. It's not your project, and you're certainly not managing or organizing it, so who are you to sit there and demand materials or a deadline?
It is about you telling the people who are upset to clam up and wait longer for an already extended development period.
We played this game last time, and, as I said before, and I was forced to tell all the TOB players that TBG is still happening, and try to placate the people and insist, despite all evidence to the contrary, that this was happening.
Unlike Duke Nukem Forever, you don't hand out Christmas cards and teasers, but like DNF, there is this insistence that the game will be finished.

swivelgames wrote:
elrunethe2nd wrote:
I don't feel like shelling out a certain amount per month to get engine access, no. Please don't tell me that that makes me unreasonable. I do believe I suggested a free alternative.
Regarding that, Elfprince, I was serious about my suggestion.
If you even had the ability to work on the engine (the knowledge and credentials to) you wouldn't "shell out" (contribute) a mere $1.5/month to get your name in the credits of a game (regardless of its success) and put in effort towards the end product you're so impatiently demanding for? That's a little screwy... Because I certainly would. Heck, you'd even have earned the right to brag and say that because of you the project got finished faster, and it was the way it turned out.
I do believe I suggested a free alternative.
I also like how you beat the people over the head with your insults and tell us to shut up, and then demand money out of us. I'd compare you to Kimmo, but that would be a little harsh even by my standards. You are in the real world, guys, where people who complain aren't trolls and most certainly do not cough up money when you demand it. Now, my original post was directed to the people who are actually making this game, not to people from around the forum. I did make a suggestion aimed specifically at Elfprince, in that respect. Swivelgames, stop mashing the 'drama' button and let the people with actual importance in here talk. Please. I want to hear what the developers have to say, not their fans who descend on nay-sayers whenever we speak up. If I wanted to ask you, I would have consulted you by other channels.
'The developers' would have posted if they weren't steering clear from this overly counter-productive thread. (see other locked thread)
Mapar007 wrote:
'The developers' would have posted if they weren't steering clear from this overly counter-productive thread. (see other locked thread)

This sort of comment is steering this thread to a lock. Tifreak isn't a TBG developer, but a forum moderator, and was simply ending a shouting match in that thread.
elrunethe2nd wrote:
It is about you telling the people who are upset to clam up and wait longer for an already extended development period.
We played this game last time, and, as I said before, and I was forced to tell all the TOB players that TBG is still happening, and try to placate the people and insist, despite all evidence to the contrary, that this was happening.
Unlike Duke Nukem Forever, you don't hand out Christmas cards and teasers, but like DNF, there is this insistence that the game will be finished.
Yes, eventually, it will be finished. Until then, stop complaining. Yes I'm telling you to wait longer. Who isn't? If you don't like it, tough. You're going to have to. You're being impatient. Complaining is getting you far from anywhere.

elrunethe2nd wrote:
I do believe I suggested a free alternative.
I also like how you beat the people over the head with your insults and tell us to shut up, and then demand money out of us. You are in the real world, guys, where people who complain aren't trolls and most certainly do not cough up money when you demand it. Now, my original post was directed to the people who are actually making this game, not to people from around the forum. I did make a suggestion aimed specifically at Elfprince, in that respect. Swivelgames, stop mashing the 'drama' button and let the people with actual importance in here talk. Please. I want to hear what the developers have to say, not their fans who descend on nay-sayers whenever we speak up. If I wanted to ask you, I would have consulted you by other channels.
LOL! Since when did I ever demand money out of you? I simply stated that if you had the knowledge and credentials you would be required to pay $1.5/month (which you scrounge up by picking up change on the side of the road) to gain access to the closed repository. Laughing

And I don't even know who Kimmo is, more-or-less care, so that means nothing to me.

I'd like you to realize that you are in the real world, elrune, and that whining and begging for something isn't going to get you what you want. That other people have lives and other priorities other then a silly game that you can't stop fantasizing about. And again with the demanding of the money thing. You seriously are not in the position to be complaining about that, seeing as you neither have the knowledge or credentials to work on the a thing. If someone else want's to complain about it, let them. But whether or not it was a closed or open repository you wouldn't have access to it, so why are you complaining? Stop looking for more shit to whine about just because your original points were dismantled.

swivelgames wrote:
When you neither own a license issued by an unassociated company nor have the ability to code in C++ you're the last person with the right to complain about it being closed or open sourced. The scripts are open sourced because they are not bound by law to be closed. Work on them. Not once have I heard the developers advise you people not to.
Quote:
If someone else want's to complain about it, let them


*complains*
Lucas W wrote:
Quote:
If someone else want's to complain about it, let them


*complains*
I give up on the two of you.
Swivelgames wrote:
Yes, eventually, it will be finished. Until then, stop complaining. Yes I'm telling you to wait longer. Who isn't? If you don't like it, tough. You're going to have to. You're being impatient. Complaining is getting you far from anywhere.
Better I make a big deal then keep quiet and this continues having an indefinite finish date.

Swivelgames wrote:
I give up on the both of you.
Swivelgames, stop mashing the 'drama' button. We never asked to talk to you, I directed the OP at TBG's developers.

Swivelgames wrote:
And I don't even know who Kimmo is, more-or-less care, so that means nothing to me.
Infamous ex admin of the website Anontalk, who famously abused his visitors to breaking point and then posted giant rages asking why noone donated to his website. Look it up on ED if you're interested, it was entertaining at the time.

Swivelgames wrote:
I'd like you to realize that you are in the real world, elrune, and that whining and begging for something isn't going to get you what you want. That other people have lives and other priorities other then a silly game that you can't stop fantasizing about. And again with the demanding of the money thing. You seriously are not in the position to be complaining about that, seeing as you neither have the knowledge or credentials to work on the a thing. If someone else want's to complain about it, let them. But whether or not it was a closed or open repository you wouldn't have access to it, so why are you complaining? Stop looking for more shit to whine about just because your original points were dismantled.
Again, words. Good for you, read them; information contained within. I suggested a free alternative. Noone even paused to tell me that it isn't legally viable, just continued demanding everyone STFU's.
elrunethe2nd wrote:
Better I make a big deal then keep quiet and this continues having an indefinite finish date.
Good luck on this leading to a definite finish date.

elrunethe2nd wrote:
Swivelgames, stop mashing the 'drama' button. We never asked to talk to you, I directed the OP at TBG's developers.
Nobody asked you to talk, and yet here you are. The reason I posted was because I was concerned with your current mental health. Your reasoning beyond your incessant whining had me worried.

elrunethe2nd wrote:
Infamous ex admin of the website Anontalk, who famously abused his visitors to breaking point and then posted giant rages asking why noone donated to his website. Look it up on ED if you're interested, it was entertaining at the time.
Again, don't care. I neither remember posting a rage asking why no-one donated to my website, nor asking why no-one donated to TBG, but simply why you are complaining about something that doesn't concern you.

elrunethe2nd wrote:
Again, words. Good for you, read them; information contained within. I suggested a free alternative. Noone even paused to tell me that it isn't legally viable, just continued demanding everyone STFU's.
I seem to remember you throwing out accusations that the developers where demanding money. You never paused to ask before you claimed such atrocities. Why are we the ones that should sit by and take it when you're the one throwing around the accusations? You never paused to figure the situation out or ask around nicely before posting your rant. And don't try and back out of it using the fact that you suggested a free alternative as an excuse, you're continuing to accuse the developers of "demanding" money from others who want to work on it. The fact remains, and I will continue to argue that, it is unreasonable for you to expect them to comply with a suggestion (period, but even then...) especially if the subject in question does not concern you.

That being said, the fact that you came onto our forum and ranted about things that you had no extended knowledge of without asking around and learning the facts first is unacceptable, and the retorts made by everyone in that regard are therefore justified. If you want to come on to this forum and accuse its members of something before knowing the facts you're taking the risk of being flamed and it's no-one's fault but your own.

And just remember, a suggestion is a suggestion, but in the end it isn't your decision so you have no right to complain. Everything is done for at least one logical reason and no-one who has contributed to this thread is mentally retarded. With that in mind, do you honestly think that the developers would make themselves pay for something if they didn't have to? And if that's not the case then honestly, what kind of people do you take these developers for? Do you honestly think they'd ask for money from the developers if it wasn't necessary? That's kind of ridiculous to assume, elrunethe2nd. You have to at least be suspicious of the motive and do some research.


Lesson learned today (or not, if you're stubborn): Do your homework before you come to someone's front door only to start accusing them of things you (1) don't have the facts about, (2) don't have the right to complain about, or subjects that don't even concern you.
swivelgames wrote:
elrunethe2nd wrote:
Better I make a big deal then keep quiet and this continues having an indefinite finish date.
Good luck on this leading to a definite finish date.

I thank you for your positive wishes.

swivelgames wrote:
elrunethe2nd wrote:
Swivelgames, stop mashing the 'drama' button. We never asked to talk to you, I directed the OP at TBG's developers.
Nobody asked you to talk, and yet here you are. The reason I posted was because I was concerned with your current mental health. Your reasoning beyond your incessant whining had me worried.
I like how people aren't actually allowed to ask questions without being mobbed by the developers fans. Stand down and let me talk to the people whose opinions I actually want, and stop throwing insults, because the angrier and less objective you get, the more ridiculous you seem to me. You're waving your arms and making this a personal fight of yours when it has positively nothing to do with you. I don't even think you have your name in the game's credits for doing something as trivial as I did.

swivelgames wrote:
I seem to remember you throwing out accusations that the developers where demanding money. You never paused to ask before you claimed such atrocities. Why are we the ones that should sit by and take it when you're the one throwing around the accusations? You never paused to figure the situation out or ask around nicely before posting your rant.
Don't lose sight of the point here. If you want to be a major developer of TBG and get engine access, you need to pay for it!
The developers are demanding money from people in order to let them do significant modification to the game, or is that not self explanatory! To say that, despite the fact Elfprince wants $1.50 per month (or whatnot) for engine access and then say this is not a demand for money is insane. It is denial of what was plainly said.

swivelgames wrote:
And just remember, a suggestion is a suggestion, but in the end it isn't your decision so you have no right to complain.
Well, it affects me as part of the intended audience, and a representative of a greater audience not here today.

swivelgames wrote:
Lesson learned today (or not, if you're stubborn): Do your homework before you come to someone's front door only to start accusing them of things you (1) don't have the facts about, (2) don't have the right to complain about, or subjects that don't even concern you.
Don't play teacher with me, that is just toxic icing on an already bad cake, and a tone like that is simply trying to incite me into a rage, which won't work and is just you moving this thread to the ultimate goal of a lock rather than a solution.
elrunethe2nd wrote:
swivelgames wrote:
I seem to remember you throwing out accusations that the developers where demanding money. You never paused to ask before you claimed such atrocities. Why are we the ones that should sit by and take it when you're the one throwing around the accusations? You never paused to figure the situation out or ask around nicely before posting your rant.
Don't lose sight of the point here. If you want to be a major developer of TBG and get engine access, you need to pay for it!
The developers are demanding money from people in order to let them do significant modification to the game, or is that not self explanatory! To say that, despite the fact Elfprince wants $1.50 per month (or whatnot) for engine access and then say this is not a demand for money is insane. It is denial of what was plainly said.
He is asking for money because that is what it costs him to give other developers money, he is not making money of that because all the money goes towards his costs to allow others to work on it, its that simple. Not to mention that $1.50 is such a small amount that if you can't manage that I'm not sure how you can afford the cost of a computer to play the game on. Not to mention the money he has already invested in order to purchase the license in the first place.
  
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