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I lol'd

http://ultdev.com/images/1256956381609.jpg
Ultimate Dev'r wrote:


It's a a shame. Relatedly, the prosperity gospel is a sham.
The Vatican is actually a huge museum, with some of the most valuable things in the world, it would be an incalculable crime to sell that off to places where none of it would be seen. It has more culture than the Louvre, and more tourists, too!

Besides, its not as if they sit there and do nothing with their wealth.
They give hundreds of millions (I forget the precise figure) each year to churches globally to keep them running, which give large amounts of it to people. The Vatican isn't as evil as Dan Brown painted in his books.

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That was harsh. At least these 'bigots' are going to church.
People certainly don't care about what they cannot see generally, I don't know why some 'enlightened' individual wants to tell people how to live with a copy of Photoshop and a picture of crucifixion.
I mean, how much is Photoshop these days? You could buy a house in Zimbabwe for that, man! Very Happy

Back to topic, I don't know about America, but when was the last time you saw an orphanage?
elrunethe2nd wrote:
Quote:

That was harsh. At least these 'bigots' are going to church.


That's right; in their expensive dress clothes, SUVs, passing by those less fortunate than themselves and instead of actually helping improve the human condition they go to a very expensive and nice church where someone tells them how to be more like Jesus. I fucking love religion Good Idea

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People certainly don't care about what they cannot see generally, I don't know why some 'enlightened' individual wants to tell people how to live with a copy of Photoshop and a picture of crucifixion.


You think the bible or any other form of spreading a message is any more "correct" than shoops? blasphamy.

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I mean, how much is Photoshop these days? You could buy a house in Zimbabwe for that, man! Very Happy


You can't get a house in Zimbabwe for free; remember, they use $100 trillion dollar bills over there.

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Back to topic, I don't know about America, but when was the last time you saw an orphanage?


You must be from suburbia.
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That's right; in their expensive dress clothes, SUVs, passing by those less fortunate than themselves and instead of actually helping improve the human condition they go to a very expensive and nice church where someone tells them how to be more like Jesus. I fucking love religion

What about the true moneymakers who don't go at all?
Instead of focusing on 'fake' catholics, what about the fact that the people who make I-pods earn up to $62 a week, the factories run 24 hours a day and get away with it because temporary employees (as none stay for long times) aren't subject to the same laws?
What about the fact that, at its prime, sales of the I-pod rocketed up to 107,000 daily, supporting all that?

To quote Travis Beard quoting a worker he talked to who had just quit the I-pod Nano factory "After every shift, an average of 200 or 300 people leave the factory, vowing never to return.". That turnover is bigger than the number of people who go to church in my city.

Honestly, the people-in-suits are doing FAR larger crimes than pretending to pray.

...And the soccermoms, the disgruntled workers and people there in their SUV's driving by the orphanages don't know about that at all. The listen to their music, do the 9-5 and go to church because it's tradition. Sounds pretty acceptable to me.
Both of you know damn well if/when you were/are that rich you wouldn't donate a cent. Stop debating about what they should be doing, when you know damn well you wouldn't do anything either. Shut up and stop complaining.

Besides, what they do with their money is their business. There's even a majority that invest and donate in charities with out even their spouses knowing.

Until one of you go out and make the millions, become a "loyal Christian", and contribute the majority of your wealth to the less-fortunate (and sometimes just lazy) then I'd you're arguments are void to begin with. Hell, you can even say screw the "loyal Christian" part just to prove a meaningless point.
While I think I am not heartless, I shall explain what I interpreted that to mean with a equal parable that I heard from (surprisingly) a 'dumb' friend.

Lachlan Harley wrote:
It is far easier to throw away masses of troops when they are but pieces on a board.


It is certainly true that "out of sight, out of mind" applies here, and that its far easier to spend money and make "hard buisness decisions" when you don't see the direct effects of them on your doorstep, and that, I think, is the issue with the whole orphans/homeless debate.

My family isn't what you'd say is rich, but certainly wealthy enough to live comfortably. We make do with internet, aircon and a dozen other such 'luxuries'. It's just as easy to say we all have committed a crime by owning these too. I don't think the way society works is right, but no, I do not claim to have a solution. What can I do? What can people do? Storm in (your equivalent of) Parliament House and kill everything which moves? These things are global issues. The truth is, humanity has manufactured a truck-load of things that we can feel guilty about. There's fish (overfishing, dolphins), supermarket food (GM, overseas crops), the education system, cosmetics (oh lawks), the whole darn medical industry, the army and practically anything costing something comes from China which equates to cheap manufacturing and slave labor. We are supporting all of these things in some way! What do we do in a society like this but make the best of things?

Don't get me wrong, my family sponsors a child in Zimbabwe, but I don't actively go out of my way to change the world. I don't consider myself not guilty, but equally, society makes it very easy to forget about those-less-fortunate-than-you.

When you convert hours of near slave labor into figures and then fudge the numbers until they fit on a nice, white piece of paper, its certainly a hell of a lot easier to look at them.
elrunethe2nd wrote:
Quote:
That's right; in their expensive dress clothes, SUVs, passing by those less fortunate than themselves and instead of actually helping improve the human condition they go to a very expensive and nice church where someone tells them how to be more like Jesus. I a love religion

What about the true moneymakers who don't go at all?
Instead of focusing on 'fake' catholics, what about the fact that the people who make I-pods earn up to $62 a week, the factories run 24 hours a day and get away with it because temporary employees (as none stay for long times) aren't subject to the same laws?
What about the fact that, at its prime, sales of the I-pod rocketed up to 107,000 daily, supporting all that?

To quote Travis Beard quoting a worker he talked to who had just quit the I-pod Nano factory "After every shift, an average of 200 or 300 people leave the factory, vowing never to return.". That turnover is bigger than the number of people who go to church in my city.

Honestly, the people-in-suits are doing FAR larger crimes than pretending to pray.


Nobody cares about iPaudz.

Quote:
...And the soccermoms, the disgruntled workers and people there in their SUV's driving by the orphanages don't know about that at all. The listen to their music, do the 9-5 and go to church because it's tradition. Sounds pretty acceptable to me.


lol @ trying to have it both ways.

swivelgames wrote:
Both of you know damn well if/when you were/are that rich you wouldn't donate a cent. Stop debating about what they should be doing, when you know damn well you wouldn't do anything either. Shut up and stop complaining.


Still doesn't make it "right", so stop complaining about our "complaining" Razz

Quote:
Besides, what they do with their money is their business. There's even a majority that invest and donate in charities with out even their spouses knowing.

Until one of you go out and make the millions, become a "loyal Christian", and contribute the majority of your wealth to the less-fortunate (and sometimes just lazy) then I'd you're arguments are void to begin with. Hell, you can even say screw the "loyal Christian" part just to prove a meaningless point.


elrunethe2nd wrote:
The Vatican is actually a huge museum, with some of the most valuable things in the world, it would be an incalculable crime to sell that off to places where none of it would be seen. It has more culture than the Louvre, and more tourists, too!

This is the truth. Immediately following the Bolshevik revolution, when the new communist government tried to order the churches to turn over their artifacts to save the starving Siberians, the peasantry was more willing to pay from their own pockets to keep their churches intact than to just give up the artifacts. Of course the government then sent in shock troops with machine guns to raid the churches anyway and then forgot to use their newfound wealth to help the Siberians, but that's besides the point.

elrunethe2nd wrote:
Besides, its not as if they sit there and do nothing with their wealth.
They give hundreds of millions (I forget the precise figure) each year to churches globally to keep them running, which give large amounts of it to people. The Vatican isn't as evil as Dan Brown painted in his books.

Also more or less the truth. Remember that in America, Christians give more to charity than any other demographic. I hate to toot my own horn, but our family was audited by the IRS a few years ago because they were pissed at how much we were giving to charity.


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That was harsh. At least these 'bigots' are going to church.

This not so much. Going to church isn't really worth anything if you aren't actually following Jesus's teachings. I was disgusted to hear about churches who make the homeless go to the backdoor for food handouts, won't let them in to the service, and that this is a lot more common than I had realized. Far too few churches actually follow Christ's example.
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Nobody cares about iPaudz.

But i'm betting that you or someone you know owns one.
Its all very well to complain about a congregation of people not-wanting-to-be-there when at church, but if compared equally, there are far greater crimes out there.
Honestly, the people-in-suits are doing FAR larger crimes than pretending to pray.

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lol @ trying to have it both ways.

Acceptable compared to something like the practices which occur in IPod manufacture.
If I could eliminate one, it would certainly be the IPod situation, not unmeaningful congregations. Nothing happens that wouldn't happen if they didn't go, and going doesn't hurt anyone. Besides, if they occasionally donate some cash to the collection tin, its a good thing for the church and community too.
elrunethe2nd wrote:
Acceptable compared to something like the practices which occur in IPod manufacture.
If I could eliminate one, it would certainly be the IPod situation, not unmeaningful congregations. Nothing happens that wouldn't happen if they didn't go, and going doesn't hurt anyone. Besides, if they occasionally donate some cash to the collection tin, its a good thing for the church and community too.


You're missing his point, which is pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in Church-goers who are more interested in the ritual good feelings of church than following it's teachings.
elrunethe2nd wrote:
Quote:
Nobody cares about iPaudz.

But i'm betting that you or someone you know owns one.
Its all very well to complain about a congregation of people not-wanting-to-be-there when at church, but if compared equally, there are far greater crimes out there.
Honestly, the people-in-suits are doing FAR larger crimes than pretending to pray.

Quote:
0x5 @ trying to have it both ways.

Acceptable compared to something like the practices which occur in IPod manufacture.
If I could eliminate one, it would certainly be the IPod situation, not unmeaningful congregations. Nothing happens that wouldn't happen if they didn't go, and going doesn't hurt anyone. Besides, if they occasionally donate some cash to the collection tin, its a good thing for the church and community too.


Going to church incites radicalism.
Ultimate Dev'r wrote:
Going to church incites radicalism.

Rather, having state religion allows political leaders to incite radicalism.
Ultimate Dev'r wrote:

Going to church incites radicalism.

oh... wow... really? that's quite a stretch don't you think?
According to you, videogamers are bad because of Virginia Tech, America is bad because of obesity and Britain is the worst evil to man given that they decided to crush the rest of the world and 'civilize' them.

Oh hell no.
Don't you dare use the crusades as an argument.
The happened hundreds of years ago when society was far less civilized. People were abusing the words of the bible and of priests, who are, indeed, only human, as an excuse to take the "holy land" back from another highly advanced nation.

Besides, you should have something other than the MOST RIDICULOUSLY OVERUSED argument in history to use.
You find a truckload more 'radicalism' in Christian derivatives, such as those exorcism churches and 'money-based' faith groups.

I really get furious when people fall back to the Crusades as their ultimate trump card.
Elfprince wrote:
You're missing his point, which is pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in Church-goers who are more interested in the ritual good feelings of church than following it's teachings.

I'm saying its not as big a deal as he is making it out to be, and there are FAR worse evils.
Honestly, its a very minor thing to get hung up about when the rest of the world is committing equal crimes through ignorance and greed.
elrunethe2nd wrote:
According to you, videogamers are bad because of Virginia Tech, America is bad because of obesity and Britain is the worst evil to man given that they decided to crush the rest of the world and 'civilize' them.

Oh hell no.
Don't you dare use the crusades as an argument.
The happened hundreds of years ago when society was far less civilized. People were abusing the words of the bible and of priests, who are, indeed, only human, as an excuse to take the "holy land" back from another highly advanced nation.

Besides, you should have something other than the MOST RIDICULOUSLY OVERUSED argument in history to use.
You find a truckload more 'radicalism' in Christian derivatives, such as those exorcism churches and 'money-based' faith groups.



Don't you dare try to defend your beloved fantasies of "religion" without posting sauce; it's done us more harm than good over the years; how many wars do you think were caused by differences in religion and culture? FUCKING ALL OF THEM.
elrunethe2nd wrote:

That happened hundreds of years ago when society was far less civilized. People were abusing the words of the bible and of priests, who are, indeed, only human, as an excuse to take the "holy land" back from another highly advanced nation.
elrunethe2nd wrote:
I'm saying its not as big a deal as he is making it out to be, and there are FAR worse evils.
Honestly, its a very minor thing to get hung up about when the rest of the world is committing equal crimes through ignorance and greed.

Absolutely, but using a Tu Quoque argument isn't good debating style, and usually ends up just looking like an attempt at self justification.
elrunethe2nd wrote:
According to you, videogamers are bad because of Virginia Tech, America is bad because of obesity and Britain is the worst evil to man given that they decided to crush the rest of the world and 'civilize' them.


Logic fail. The crusades WERE caused by religion. 100% undeniably the fault of religion. Nothing else you claim is anywhere near as cut and dry - far from it. For example, there is no evidence whatsoever that video games caused Virginia Tech. The exact opposite can easily be claimed, however, as murder rates are at an all time low, less than *HALF* what they were 20 years ago. If anything, violent video games has led to a REDUCTION in violent crimes - a massive one at that.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm

Quote:
Oh hell no.
Don't you dare use the crusades as an argument.
The happened hundreds of years ago when society was far less civilized. People were abusing the words of the bible and of priests, who are, indeed, only human, as an excuse to take the "holy land" back from another highly advanced nation.

Besides, you should have something other than the MOST RIDICULOUSLY OVERUSED argument in history to use.
You find a truckload more 'radicalism' in Christian derivatives, such as those exorcism churches and 'money-based' faith groups.

I really get furious when people fall back to the Crusades as their ultimate trump card.


You get furious because it is completely true and valid. Religion has always been used as a source of political power, and it still is. More often than not, the use of that political power is NOT for the good of the people.

You want modern examples? How about bans on medical research (stem cells, cloning, etc...), gay marriage, priests raping boys, role of women, attitudes to sex, etc...

Quote:
I'm saying its not as big a deal as he is making it out to be, and there are FAR worse evils.
Honestly, its a very minor thing to get hung up about when the rest of the world is committing equal crimes through ignorance and greed.


Letting people starve while claiming on a weekly basis that you would help them is a "minor thing"? What the hell is wrong with you?
  
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