This evening I saw a fascinating movie, extremely eye-opening about the government, the oil industry, the automotive industry, and the fate of cleaner transportation alternatives. The film is entitled "Who Killed the Electric Car?"; it focuses on the GM EV-1, an electric car produced starting in 1995 that enchanted all who drove it. It could go up to one hundred miles on a charge, more than enough for commuters, was nearly silent, produced no emissions whatsoever, and could go 0-60 in about four seconds flat. Where did it go? Why did America abandon a car that already existed that fulfilled the needs of a clean, fast, environmentally-conscientious vehicle? This enlightening film was quite fascinating, and I'd call it a must-see for you intelligent people. It's coming out on DVD November 14th, so go and rent it if you're not able to find it in a theater.

Oh, and I was immensely surprised to learn that the director of the film and one of the main proponents of the movement to save the electric car were coming at the end of the showing to talk to the audience and answer questions. Also got to chat with them afterwords and shake hands. Specifically:

Director, Chris Paine:


EV1 Activist, Ex-GM Dealer, Chelsea Sexton


Movie Homepage:
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

Informative Plug-in Car Site:
http://www.pluginamerica.com/

This has been out for a few months and I have seen a few clips of it. Seems like a good movie. Around the quality of Fog of War.

Cars aren't used just for commuting -- what about road trips. Road trips are a fundamental part of the American psyche because they allow us to enjoy freedom. Who wants to buy a car that can only go 100 miles for a road trip?

There exist EVs that can go 300miles on one charge.
I saw the movie too. Sounds like it's time for consumers to take matters into their own hands.
I'd say more, but I think further comment should go into an EV thread...

Alrighty, the current batteries that GM used were inferior, with the 100-mile range. Near the end of the film, they showed a custom-built electric car using batteries of a similar price sold by the O'Shinski's (sp?) that were efficient enough for a 300-mile range.

Jpez: The amount you save in gasoline with the electric car over the course of a year more than pays for renting a car for road trips.

Silly Kerm, it's not a logical issue, it's an emotional one. Who the hell wants to drive some wimpy quiet electric car when you can have a nice loud gas-burning sports car? Also, 300 miles is still sucky both as a range and considering the amount of time it takes to recharge versus refuel gas.

You're targeting a very specific case; the case when you want to drive across the state, across the border, and/or further (implied: doesn't happen all that often, afaik). At that point, the problem is recharge time, which I don't know much about. You could be right or wrong.
A more common issue is how do you insure these cars, since companies aren't making a whole ton of them, and often these EVs are actually converted gas cars? I also don't know the answer to that, but it's been dealt with. (see-also: www.evworld.com).
I'll agree with the NPOV part of the "emotional argument".

Its too impractical. It isn't the government that killed the electic car, its the america people. No one wants to be bothered by spending 4 to 5 hours to recharge their car when you can fill it up in ~5 minutes (heck, if you stay out late, your car might not even be HOME for 4 to 5 hours, so you couldn't fully charge it anyway)

Look at the hybrids, they are selling like crazy, with several major car models now available in hybrid form (Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla are decently sized cars that appeal to a large market) - the Toyota Prius even has a waiting list

Until an electric car can be charged in minutes instead of hours, and can be charged up at a gas station, they won't ever sell well. And lets not forget that a majority of electricity in the US is from coal, so if cars all start running from electricity, coal demand (and price) will also climb. The cost difference between what it would cost to run an all electric car vs. a gas car that gets good mileage (say 25mpg average) is not enough to convince the average buyer to get a special charging station installed into his/her garage, lose any chance of a road trip, and spend hours and hours charging it. Not to mention that there are quite a lot of people who spend upwards of an hour and a half driving to work each day (or more), that easily approaches the 100 mile-mark on that early prototype....

I'm getting tired of people trying to blame the government and oil companies for the lack of all electric vehicles. If that was the case, then Europe, which has much higher gas prices and much much shorter commutes, would probably have them already. But they don't, and the blame does NOT lie at the governments feet, or the oil industries feet. Quite simply, electric cars are NOT practical, and are HIGHLY flawed in their current state.

HOWEVER, I would like to point out that there IS an all-electric vehicle you can buy, if you can afford it http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

Note that they estimate it would be comparable to a 135mpg gas car - so figure its only a bit more than twice as cost-efficient as a hybrid (Prius gets about 60mpg EPA). Beginning to see why all electric is so impractical?

Not true. With its own charger, it charges in about 45 minutes. When the electric car was still under production, California built hundreds of charging stations across the state in populated areas like schools, malls, etc. Even if you run out of power, it has a built-in wall charger that you can just plug into the grid.

Exactly! People are willing to get a car that gets HALF the mpg of the comparable hybrids in Japan - why not go further?

See above. Actually, let me do this in a list.

1. It _can_ be charged up in minutes - the GM EV1 took about 45 minutes 2 hours to charge
2. Of course the demand for coal-based electricity will rise, but it's STILL cleaner to drive an electric car when that's factored in.
3. You call 25mpg a good fuel economy? That's the SAME we had at the beginning of the 1970s. Other countries with stricter efficiency standards have far surpassed this; the only thing holding this country back is the oil and automotive industries lobbying the government.
4. Early prototype?! It was a production car. They started manufacturing it.

Given my statements so far, what ARE those flaws exactly? The only thing I hear is limited range, and you're right, the electric car doesn't meet the needs of everyone. In fact, it only meets the needs of 90% of all drivers.

Yes indeed, and if PlugInAmerica has its way, there will be more.

"Only" twice as efficient? So we would "only" ruin the atmosphere half as fast...

Assuming cars are the only source of pollution



You can't really consider that "in minutes"...



Because people in Japan are...strange.

I'm blaming the car manufacturers; EVs remove all the profit they make from spare parts. The government is influenced by car manufacturers (THAT argument goes in the politics thread), and the people saw a ton of articles (paid for by oil companies) against EVs.

Invalid argument on an EV. Now, if they actually have to drive ~30mi to get to work, that's a different story.

Typo, I forgot the to.

And apparently more concerned with the ice caps melting and Greenland collapsing into the ocean than the gas-guzzling US.

hippies.

They do it to make their cars smaller so they can fit on their tiny-áss congested roads

http://www.teslamotors.com/learn_more/faqs.php

Look at the charge time, it is 3.5 hours, and that is WITH its own charger. I don't know where you got 45 minutes from, but that is so drastically off its not even funny. And a 100 to 300 mile range limit is very small. My 15 mpg Jeep Cherokee can get 300 miles on a full tank of gas, and a 60 mpg Prius is good for easily more than 600 miles on a single tank. Tesla motors car only gets 250 miles per charge, factor in that a charge is 3.5 hours, and you are looking at only being able to go 1.2 miles per 1 minute spent charging. See a problem yet?

But still, let me consider your mythical car that can charge in 45 minutes. With a range of 300 miles, thats still only 6.7 miles per minute spent charging. You can't really charge it up on the road. Its IMPRACTICAL.

People are willing to get 60mpg and NOT SACRIFICE CONVENIENCE. Cars still get 25mpg now because they are heavier and use much more electricity than the cars of yesteryear, not to mention that engines are more powerful now. Go tell someone in the middle of the summer that they can't have AC to save gas. They will tell you to stfu and get out of their face. Its the same thing, only now its bluetooth phone support, heated seats, touchscreen entertainment stacks, etc...

Plug-in Hybrids are an infinitely better solution in that it combines the best of both worlds. Runs all electric until you run out of electricity, then switches seamlessly to gas. Prius can be made into a plug-in hybrid for as little as $10,000 (for larger batteries, mainly)

Going back to what Jpez said, I would never trade in my 15mpg '93 Jeep Cherokee for something like the 30mpg Aveo. Its TOO SMALL, and has no power. I love being able to go off road with 4wd, and at speed acceleration on the highway is excellent from its 4 litre I-6 (not to mention acceleration from a dead stop is equally good, easily better than my mom's 2000 Nissan Altima)

The comparison to Japan is unfair. The US is a *tad* bit bigger than Japan, and much more spread out. I think you don't understand this, as you live in NYC, but I don't even blink at spending 30 minutes on the highway to get somewhere, and I live in a decently sized city at that (St. Louis).

true, I drive an 84 Chevy Blazer with 4 wheel drive and a manual transmission in it. I love the manual transmission in the car, and if I had my way, I would never drive automatic again. Also, what about fisherman, I would be a little concered if I had to back up my electric car to launch my boat (I have had my hitch in the water to launch at some ramps, can't do that with electric cars), and when I go camping, I can't expect an electric vehicle to be able to take an 11.5 ft Camper on the back of it and pull and 18ft boat behind it and still be able to 60mph without blinking. Also, what about plow truck? Those need a LOT of power to get their job done. There are more the 10% of the population who couldn't do what they need to do with an electric car.

No, because I don't go all the way across the state on a regular basis (or even halfway and back).
Furthermore, part of that comparison isn't quite fair. a Prius can go 600 on a tank of gas, but how does the battery play in?


Tesla's EV isn't out yet, so in order to actually get one now, you have to either DIY or convert a gas car. Therefore, you can put in what you want, and remove what you don't want.

Except for a couple of details... It still runs on gas, and it's way more complicated than either a gas car or an EV, therefore we will never be able to move onto something utlimately better unless it's even more complicated.

You don't want to look at the actual issue, you want to put up a fight. Unless you buy tesla's, you have to DIY in order to get an EV. Look at EV World, and see a plethora of DIY EVs.
@Riv, you can still do a manual transmission. It just so happens that people like to use the transmission pinned in second becuase that provides a convenient gear ratio to keep the motor at its most efficient. You could still gear it down before the transmission.
[offtopic]
I should stop arguing the PRACTICAL side of EVs because everyone else is debating the THEORETICAL side of them...
[/offtopic]

Did you miss my stats about the acceleration?? It's not a "wimpy" car. There's no reason why it can't be built bigger or with different suspension.

Only somewhat true. Tesla has already sold and shipped a limited number of their cars


Not even close to true. It operate exactly like an EV will, until there is no more electricity. Then, and only then, does it use gas. And it is NOT way more complicated. ALL Toyota Prius's ALREADY HAVE THIS BUILT IN, but it is factory-disabled.



I fail to see how you address what I said at all. Until EVs are large, roomy, and capable, they won't be purchased by a majority of people. Trucks, not cars, make up the largest segment of the auto industry in the US. It is YOU that is dodging the issue.



*choo choo!!!* Do you hear the CLUE TRAIN coming along? You *can't* do manual transmission in the same sense as a manual in gas, because electrics don't need all the gears a gas engine does. And since we are going for max mpg, why use a transmission at all? CVT is more effecient



There is no practical side of EVs, which is why there isn't a market demand for them. They ONLY offer theoretical and financial benifits

@Kerm: It is not stats, it is sound. Look at all the people buying new muffler and exhaust tips just to make their car SOUND good. Not sure about you, but I happen to enjoy the sound of a low, throaty rumble from a V8 - and apparently so do a lot of people, as cars keep getting loader and more powerful with each generation.

Some of the fun of driving manual though is being able to hit the clutch, and give that engine a really good roar no matter when you want.

So put a friggin' subwoofer in the trunk. What's the big problem?