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This topic was split from this original topic. If context is missing, that's why. Users may appear to have double posted, this is a result of the split topic and any such posts will not be combined.

And oops, this reply should have been in the 1.11 topic. Oh well, can't put it back now Very Happy




Regarding the Abba worlds, what I - or Kerm - will do is regenerate Abba until we see a mansion within a reasonable distance. It's what I did for some of Elementals custom structures and biomes. Then after the first time we highlight it, it'll just be chance or something.

KermMartian wrote:
Quote:
Also, don't you mean fierce illagers, not villagers?
Selena put illagers, and a certain silly and ~blame-able administrator changed it to "villagers", despite being corrected on Skype. Wink


I thought y'all were going with the error. I had no idea you guys were serious. Laughing
Kerm says that the plugin will be updated at the next server rebooted, so we'll find out whether it's fixed no later than tomorrow.

In the meantime, the rational behind disabling ender chests was that they allow "banking" of supplies without having to travel home. Hence, because you lose shulker boxes upon death, they are allowed. However, ender chests would be freely craftable if they weren't disabled. I tested in single-player whether shulkers can spawn from mob spawners in the overworld. They can, which means that catchable shulkers would make them an unlimited resource. I've gotten the impression---but no explicit statement---from Kerm that he intends to set shulkers as uncatchable.

If so, that would make shulker boxes an extremely rare and valuable resource. Like elytra, shulker boxes would be limited to a small number of players. Specifically, limited to those who got on and hunted down shulkers, after the server was updated to 1.11 without warning on Monday.

Now, while Cemetech is largely a Kermocracy, I'm sure the moderators still have at least a tiny bit of influence on this subject. So what do the staff think? Should shulker boxes be a rare and valuable resource (that I just happen to have the most of), or more available to small-time players?

(Also, shulkers in the End are just really fun to fight. Levitation is a surprisingly fun battle dynamic.)

Discussion:
<KermPhD> Shulker boxes are very powerful: you can use them like infinite-capacity backpacks if you have enough of them.
<DrDnar> You can't nest them. Plus, there's a tradeoff: The more you have in your inventory, the more often, during caving, you have to stop to transfer inventory.
<DrDnar> The no-nesting thing almost makes it sound like somebody on the Mojang dev team already thought of how over-powered that would be. :p
To touch on Ender Chests, they were disabled because we were originally a PvP server. And allowing users to store valuables in an Ender Chest largely would have defeated the challenges and rewards of PvP. The challenge of securing your chests of goodies and conversely, the rewards of accessing those goodies during a raid.

Why that carried over to 1.9 when we became a non-PvP server? Mostly for similar reasons. Not that items would be stolen but because it took the challenge out of adventuring. You could plop an Ender Chest down, put diamonds in it, break it and carry on. Die? Everything burned in a fire? No worries, build/access another Ender Chest to get those valuables. We wanted the adventure and mobs to at least have some scare factor. It's why teleport was disabled. It's to add a sense of challenge to the game.

DrDnar wrote:
Now, while Cemetech is largely a Kermocracy, I'm sure the moderators still have at least a tiny bit of influence on this subject


Not really, there's a surprisingly amount of democracy behind the scenes. That may be slightly more true for Cemetech as a whole but as far as the MC server is concerned, I have a majority rule and I regularly go with and support my moderators decisions. Kerm is not a moderator, aside from his alt admin account, and he does partake in our moderator discussions; He has equal say along with everyone else on the mod team despite his lack of status. Same with members, if there are any changes they'd like to propose they are welcome to make a topic or message me and I'll go from there.

Shulkers will likely be uncatchable. This is being discussed but at the least we may set up a server shop for them so others can have access to them while keeping their rarity and value.
Alex wrote:
To touch on Ender Chests, they were disabled because we were originally a PvP server. And allowing users to store valuables in an Ender Chest largely would have defeated the challenges and rewards of PvP. The challenge of securing your chests of goodies and conversely, the rewards of accessing those goodies during a raid.

Why that carried over to 1.9 when we became a non-PvP server? Mostly for similar reasons. Not that items would be stolen but because it took the challenge out of adventuring. You could plop an Ender Chest down, put diamonds in it, break it and carry on. Die? Everything burned in a fire? No worries, build/access another Ender Chest to get those valuables. We wanted the adventure and mobs to at least have some scare factor. It's why teleport was disabled. It's to add a sense of challenge to the game.


In regards to this, I still strongly disagree with not being able to have an enderchest. I'm not looking for a 'more challenging or dangerous' server to play on. I'm looking for a place to enjoy a game with friends. During the 1.10 saga, I built a massive slime farm. It required an enormous amount of resources to construct. I spent far more time than I should have had to do moving items from my base to the farm location because I didn't have access to said enderchest. Now it is less of issue. However, enderchests are neat decoration blocks on top of being useful, and still would like to have access to them.

As to the shulker issue, I would happily set up a spot in the end, if I can have a mob spawner and egg to just have it generate shulkers all the time. Otherwise, we could cut out the main island and my enderfarm, and regen the outer islands, which would give us something new to explore. I know Kerm is against this because he wants to limit the elytras (which I also have issues with, because we could be building fun things involving elytras, but now there are only 3 left, one person of which that hasn't been on in months, the other doesn't use his elytra).

Just my $0.02
[quote="tifreak8xI know Kerm is against this because he wants to limit the elytras (which I also have issues with, because we could be building fun things involving elytras, but now there are only 3 left, one person of which that hasn't been on in months, the other doesn't use his elytra).[/quote]

I admit we've been really terrible on the events side of the server. Which those were suppose to be the grounds for giving Elytras out as prizes. With such a small player base it's hard to find users to make such things and for the admin(s) to make them. I don't have much motivation to make an event for 3 people. Back in the day, when Elytras were released, Abba caving was a thing and we were talking about Abba Caving tournaments where, eventually, the winner of X rounds would win. Then there was talk about PvP tournaments but the lack of enabled PvP in the over world prevented that for a long time. Which I couldn't figure out but I'm glad Kerm was able to track the issue down.

I'm all for efforts to invigorate our player base.
Alex wrote:
DrDnar wrote:
Now, while Cemetech is largely a Kermocracy, I'm sure the moderators still have at least a tiny bit of influence on this subject


Not really, there's a surprisingly amount of democracy behind the scenes.

Don't worry, it was tongue-in-cheek. :) Those discussions aren't public, though, and I'm happy I've gotten exactly what I asked for: the opinions of other staff.

While I'd support having a server shop, I also just found finding and fighting the shulkers to be fun, and making them catchable would allow PvE arenas to feature them. Another thought I had is that, as an alternative to catchable shulkers, it'd be cool if Elemental could be convinced to make a custom structure for TC that contains shulkers.

Also, speaking of catching mobs, I hope that vindicators and vexes are catchable. I get wanting to keep totems of undying rare, but the vexes and vindicators could be a legitimate part of a PvE arena, they don't give any special drops anybody'd want to keep rare, and both work in mob spawners. (Evokers would also make a neat addition to PvE arenas, but, of course, you can't stop them from dropping totems of undying.)
I agree, Alex. However, certain stipulations like no end chests do tend to push people away. A surprising amount of people won't even consider a server if they get wind that they don't allow certain things that are vanilla. Like tpa, people seem to dislike not having it. I like having it, but I've learned to live without it.

I also tried to set up a hunt for halloween, but since that weekish of I couldn't go to my town at all, I was never able to do it, which made me really sad.
Alex wrote:
I don't have much motivation to make an event for 3 people.
I guess I can't blame you for that. So naturally. . . .

Alex wrote:
I'm all for efforts to invigorate our player base.
I understand a desire not to have too much administrator intervention, but I also suspect that some level of involvement is critical to maintaining a balance between keeping things interesting and keeping order. For example, posting information in spawn about major player creations like Arendelle's PvE arena and the bazaar might give prospective new players more information about what sort of things they can take part in on the server. I don't think simply telling players to explore works as well as one might hope.

Another thing to consider is making more of an effort to solicit forum discussion on what players want. As in, actually declare December to be Player Input Month, and make the server MotD say as such. "December is Player Input Month! We want to know what aspects of the Cemetech Minecraft server players like and dislike. Posf your thoughts on the forum at https://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=79"

Another point: PvP hasn't been outlawed since 1.8, just de-emphasized. A careful reading of the server rules indicates that players should feel free to build their own bases and organize their own PvP wars. Due to PvP being disabled by default and the high cost of towns (which, you'll recall, are needed to set up PvP-enabled zones), this hasn't been a popular idea. For the players who like PvP, what can you suggest doing to balance PvP and creative aspects of gameplay on the server?

One simple way to get out the message about any policy changes would be to change the server name to advertise it somehow, e.g. "Intellectual Survival: Now with more shulker boxes!" or "Intellectual Survival: Now with optional PvP!" Then, players who haven't been around in a while might notice it when their client pings the server and be curious enough to drop by to check out the changes. (Unless pinging the server doesn't update that message. I'm not sure how that works.)

Alex wrote:
I admit we've been really terrible on the events side of the server.
I suspect there might be a virtuous cycle of players being interested in the server because of events, and events being created by players because they're interested. One way to promote events may be for the staff to make a policy of adding additional prizes of non-renewable (such as elytra) or just rare (such as totems of undying) items for player-created events. I'm sure at some point there will be some drama about decisions on whether a player's event is sufficiently deserving of such intervention, but if you try to please everyone, you're likely to please no one.

tifreak8x wrote:
I agree, Alex. However, certain stipulations like no end chests do tend to push people away. A surprising amount of people won't even consider a server if they get wind that they don't allow certain things that are vanilla.
I'm not familiar with inter-server competition, but that doesn't surprise me. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that telling people that ender chests are disabled and shulker boxes are nearly unobtainable for new players might be a turn-off for a few prospective players.

tifreak8x wrote:
Like tpa, people seem to dislike not having it. I like having it, but I've learned to live without it.
As much fun as infrastructure can be to design and build, I imagine that one issue people have with rails is that they're just not that fast a means of travel. I'd suggest a compromise: Have an admin allow players to request a /warp be created after transit infrastructure has been built. I think this idea has been rejected before, but hey, I'm incorrigible.

Not having access to new elytra is certainly a disappointing restriction from vanilla. I suggested---albeit in passing, on IRC---that anybody who single-handedly defeated a dragon should get an elytra, which is pretty similar to how you get one in single-player. The idea was shot down, but hey, I'm still as incorrigible this paragraph as the last.

Here's a question: How did you disable ender boxes in the first place? Could you make shulker shells disabled, too, and instead only have a server shops that sells shulker boxes? If so, would you then allow shulkers to be catchable so they can be used in PvE?
My $0.02:

Ender Chests: I personally don't have an issue with not having them, though sometimes having to truck back and forth for supplies when building gets tedious. Perhaps adding them to spawn shop is a good idea, or maybe giving every player or town 2 to start with (one to place building supplies in, the other to place at the construction site -- assuming that's what they'd be used for).

Elytras/Shulkers: Rarity of these things are awesome, although I do confess to wishing i could experiment with one for a while. If the admins agree, i would be happy to host matches where we give them to the winning team or player. Same for ender chests if we do decide to use them.
DrDnar wrote:
Have an admin allow players to request a /warp be created after transit infrastructure has been built.

While I originally would have agreed to this, after thinking it over I'm more inclined against it since it would most likely turn into '/warp town1, /warp town2, /warp fancyShop, /warp yetAnotherTown'
This would basically invalidate all previously built infrastructure.

DrDnar wrote:
"December is Player Input Month!"

You'll need to find a catchier title than that if you want it to catch on. Smile
  
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