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Hey Kerm, I want a copy of the DCS 5.5 source code.

According to this page --> http://cemetech.net/about/legal.php <-- you release all cemetech programs under the GNU GPL ("GNU General Public License - Used for all Cemetech programs"), which means you are legally obliged to provide a copy of the source code.

Seeing as DCS 5.5 Beta has already been released, it is too late to change the license, so dish up that source code.
Wow, what? I had completely forgotten that that page was there. *yoink*. Are you sure? Doors CS 5.5 Beta technically hasn't been released yet, it's a private beta available to members.

Edit: actually, you are talking nonsense. from the page:
Quote:
0. This License applies to any program or other work which contains a notice placed by the copyright holder saying it may be distributed under the terms of this General Public License. The "Program", below, refers to any such program or work, and a "work based on the Program" means either the Program or any derivative work under copyright law: that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion of it, either verbatim or with modifications and/or translated into another language. (Hereinafter, translation is included without limitation in the term "modification".) Each licensee is addressed as "you".

Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of running the Program is not restricted, and the output from the Program is covered only if its contents constitute a work based on the Program (independent of having been made by running the Program). Whether that is true depends on what the Program does.
I didn't add the notice, and therefore the GPL does not apply. I can also claim that I added that long ago when I had only a few BASIC programs on the site, and haven't worked on it in ages.
I'll give you that Kerm, but how about all the other versions. And if I am not mistaken, he need to include a copy of the lisence with the programs. 5.5 is grey territory right now on this.

Edit: in terms of Kerm's edit: I won't deal with the finer points of this, I am not a lawyer (Alex, where are you?)
KermMartian wrote:
Wow, what? I had completely forgotten that that page was there. *yoink*. Are you sure? Doors CS 5.5 Beta technically hasn't been released yet, it's a private beta available to members.


Which was provided under that licence. So give up the source code - you legally have to.

Speaking of which, this is a great time to "switch" (aka, actually follow) the GNU GPL. There isn't any real reason to NOT make DCS open source. It would propel DCS ahead of MOS, especially with all the talented ASM programmers who can debug and contribute. I think it would exponentially increase DCSes quality and appeal.
Uhhhh, no. Sorry, DCSx is closed source for now, and that's all there is to it. I didn't explicitly make DCS GPL, and I'm amending that page to be more specific to avoid future confusion.
KermMartian wrote:
Uhhhh, no. Sorry, DCSx is closed source for now, and that's all there is to it. I didn't explicitly make DCS GPL, and I'm amending that page to be more specific to avoid future confusion.


WHY is DCS closed source? You have yet to ever give me a reason. Help the community that you so claim to love. You leech off of all the other open source projects and programs, proclaim love for FireFox, GAIM, Apache, PHP, etc.. yet REFUSE to join in the movement they are a part of.

Pick a side Kerm. Are you FOR or AGAINST OpenSource programs? No more of this "I like open source as long as it isn't my source" bullshit. I will refuse to participate and help develop the computer side GCN client, and will pull all of the code I have written so far, if you continue this crap. (Which, seeing as Elfprince already quit, means there won't BE a computer side client as it stands)
I am for Open Source in everything except calculator programs. I've had too many bad experiences with people ripping off my source and calling it their own. Look at MOS: it's closed source, yet it's the most popular shell. Michael Vincent and the others make all their computer programs open source, yet leave their calc programs closed source. It's just too easy for knublets to steal some code, compile it, and say ZOMG LOOK I MADE DOORS CS LOL.
I know what you mean, even with plain basic programs... There is a kid at my school who 'thinks' that he is a great programmer... He walks up to me in the hall and wants me to upload all my programs to his calculator, and i do not because i know for a fact that he takes other peoples programs and adds 'made by (for his safety I will omit the name)...
Harq wrote:
I know what you mean, even with plain basic programs... There is a kid at my school who 'thinks' that he is a great programmer... He walks up to me in the hall and wants me to upload all my programs to his calculator, and I do not because I know for a fact that he takes other peoples programs and adds 'made by (for his safety I will omit the name)...
I've had three different people do that to me and upload them to ticalc.org. One started doing it to all of my programs before I got ticalc.org to shut him down.
Ouch... That would really suck to have someone change all you programs...
it would. So far, I don't know of plagarism of my stuff.
KermMartian wrote:
I am for Open Source in everything except calculator programs. I've had too many bad experiences with people ripping off my source and calling it their own. Look at MOS: it's closed source, yet it's the most popular shell. Michael Vincent and the others make all their computer programs open source, yet leave their calc programs closed source. It's just too easy for knublets to steal some code, compile it, and say ZOMG LOOK I MADE DOORS CS LOL.


Fight through it. The community will back you if you help out the community by releasing it opensource. TiCalc.org will have to step up in filtering this kinda crap out, yet the problem is not big enough yet. Put up the test cases, force changes.

--> http://www.gnu.org/gnu/thegnuproject.html <-- Read that (yes, i know its long, get over it) and see if you have changed your opinions on free software. The computer GNU/Linux Free Software movement had to fight though similar challenges, and if everyone gave up like you do, then there would be no GNU/Linux system as we know it today.

Make DCS6 a revolution in more than one way. Make it a revolution in being completely open source under the GNU GPL (which, in case you don't know, makes it legal for people to make changes and redistribute as long as the changes are made open) If someone copies off you, post on all the major calc forums, complaign to ticalc, etc... and pull a hays games petition repeat. People will learn soon enough. However, I don't think you will have to worry about this as much, seeing as DCS is now in ASM. Hell, look at all the n00bs who can't even get Hello World to compile in ASM.....

And regarding MOS, didn't it make supporting Mirage programs that much harder? Didn't it frustrate you when they denied you access to the routines? Yet now you want to join their side? (And isn't MOS open source now?)
Kllrnohj wrote:
(And isn't MOS open source now?)


Yeah, I remember hearing something about it going open source. The change didn't seem to make the shell take off, though... Why would doing this with DCS be any different?
First off, let's get an understanding of what exactly happened with MOS. This summer, DetachedSolutions got the opportunity to be a mentoring agency in Google's Summer of Code. This meant that they were obliged to make all of their programs open source. The actual source has yet to be posted on Sourceforge, but it's not DetachedSolutions fault (or so they claim), it's just Sourceforge's slowness. Therefore, the community has yet to take advantage of the opensourceness of Mirage, yet.

I really think that you should make DCS open source. Think about it. How many people can compile ASM, I ask you. Not many. Of these few, how many of them are n00bs that are going to steal your code. I'd doubt that any would, but you may have one jerk - but you can take care of that; the benifeits are much better. Other users can write improvements to DCS. This means that you will have help with all of those bugs that MaxCoderz always bitches about. Also, you will have regular coderz helping you with DCS, which would lead to quicker release dates (so maybe we can beat that Jan 1, 12:00 AM, 2007 deadline).

I think it's immature to believe that you are going to be ripped off in this situation. I agree that the community will back you up if anyone was to be an a. At the same time, I respect your choice to make your shell closed source. At the end of the day, it's what you want. But, I think it's very selfish for you to make the code closed source. You're not making any money off of it. What reason do you have to keep it closed, other than this SINGLE excuse that people will copy it. I think you need to move past this fear Kerm. This can really be awesome for the community as a whole Wink

I know that you mostly disregard my posts, and I understand that at the end of the day, it's your choice, and it should be your choice! But, please, at least consider (and I mean seriously consider) making it open source. I realize you have been robbed in the past, but if you were robbed in real life, would you live inside a concrete box to protect yourself from future robbings? Or would you continue on with your "open" life, and let the community (police) handle the perps? Smile
I think that you should definitly go open source, especially with such a big project.

There are bugs in DCS- and everyone knows its harder to find bugs in your own programs. If you want DCS to be popular, you have to get rid of those bugs. If you released the code, you can concentrate on new features while the community concentrates on finding bugs and maybe better graphics or somesuch.
If you really think about it, then there's pretty much a guarantee your program won't get ripped off. If n00bs tried to get away with it, they would immediately get caught because what n00b can make an Asm App shell with little or no reputation for making Asm programs. I think those with the Asm experience needed to make a shell wouldn't risk their reputation on stealing a shell.
Chipmaster wrote:
...I know that you mostly disregard my posts, and I understand that at the end of the day, it's your choice, and it should be your choice! But, please, at least consider (and I mean seriously consider) making it open source. I realize you have been robbed in the past, but if you were robbed in real life, would you live inside a concrete box to protect yourself from future robbings? Or would you continue on with your "open" life, and let the community (police) handle the perps? Smile
What do you mean? Why would I disregard your posts? I think you're one of the best members we have here... Anyway, what all you people are saying makes sense, so let me propose a middle ground. I think I should work out an open source license with the following terms:

o Free, open distribution of the source code of Doors CS
o Limited rights to modify the source: all modifications can only be used in the official release, as approved by me
o Limited reuse of code: permission from me needed before reusiong code fragments or routines
o No permissions to modify and rerelease as ones own.

Does that sound fair?
That does sound fair, see where it goes.
K, I'll start writing it up unless people (Chipmaster, Kllrnohj) have objections.
Very Happy None here. I think that is the best solution Kerm. You still get credit for the Shell (as you, and you alone should), and the code is still open to the community. I can't wait until it's released Good Idea
  
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