Hey everyone. This topic is one that has come up again with the release of 1.17. Below are my original thoughts as shared in our discord server.

My original thoughts:


There has been a fair bit of discussion regarding a reset, and I figured that I should get my word in before it is too late. I'm most opposed to a reset because it means I won't get to see any of my builds again- we should definitely offer world downloads of previous worlds.

One explanation for this policy of not offering world downloads was offered by tifreak a while ago (IIRC). He said the admins don't offer it because people would choose to play in that world instead of on the actual server. Hogwash, I say! I guarantee that the majority of our active playerbase is here because of the fantastic people (yes, even you, dear reader) and the events that are held by our admins and others. Consider the fact that once even just a couple people are online, more people jump in purely because of activity :)

One other critical part of this policy is preservation via the museum world. I hear the admins are quite behind on that (several years behind? You guys would be great PotM writers :D). I've never seen this museum world, and I would be (pleasantly) surprised if I ever did. You can't deny it's just not quite the same as having the full world. There's also just no way every build that has sentimental value for every person makes it in- unless you just share the whole wor... oh wait

Yet another explanation is "we haven't done it for the previous worlds". Well, you still have the files, and I bet that many people would love to take a peek through memory lane. It's as good of a time as any to shake things up.

There's really no reason this couldn't be done, and it's really unfortunate, especially for people like me (who have spent well over a thousand hours on this map alone). It's kinda demotivating for me as far as building cool stuff, I'd rather build it in a singleplayer world where I can at least look at it again in a year.


Back when I posted this here's an easy link for members of the server to jump back and see what their original thoughts were, it was met with further discussion, naturally. In my opinion, the museum world is a wonderful idea but too much work to maintain. It is better to archive everything instead.
I've wanted to make mechanical changes to how the server is run (unimportant to actually playing) which would be easier to do if a fresh world were generated.

I'm also not against sharing the files for worlds that are no longer online.
_iPhoenix_ wrote:
the admins don't offer it because people would choose to play in that world instead of on the actual server. Hogwash, I say!


I'm pretty confident that was never a reason. I'm not refuting that it was said, because honestly I don't want to check logs and I know some of you are crazy and totally will.

Tari wrote:
I'm also not against sharing the files for worlds that are no longer online.


There was a reason from Kerm many Winters ago. The reason has faded from my memory as to why but I recall it being an important enough thing for Kerm to not offer downloads that I haven't changed my stance on it. I believe it came up at the end of the last world and his mind was unchanged. I know there were legitimate reasons on his part so we should certainly double check with him.
At risk of speaking for him, Kerm seems to have changed his stance:

#cemetech-mc on discord wrote:
[acagliano]I think the argument is that players would like the seed, or even a map download, released once a world has been decomissioned.
<snipping out irrelevant convo>
[KermMartian]Oh, I think that's perfectly reasonable, @acagliano; I don't see why anything would be secret anymore at that point.


I mean, both players and admins will have sufficient notice to hide things they don't want seen Wink
I've already chimed in on this in-game, but no harm in putting the cliffnotes here.

I really think the withholding of the seed, or a map download, only has a viable argument while a map is in use (if someone can present an argument for after it is done, feel free). Once we are done with a map, we start fresh, at which point, keeping the seed and map secret are of no real benefit to us. I do know that certain things, this included, have been policy on Cemetech for quite some time; That being said, take care to avoid the fallacious viewpoint that just because something has been policy for a while means it is the right policy, or even that it makes sense. It has never really made sense to me why we don't make map downloads available when we are done with a world. Many other servers with a free-build or survival build theme do. Nonetheless, I haven't really had sufficient motivation to question that policy, and given issues with lag and the occasional griefer, and my focus on PvP, it hasn't really been a concern of mine. While this means I'm not well versed on the arguments for and against, it also means my opinion on this matter is relatively unbiased, in either direction.

To sum, not having maps or seeds available doesn't bother me much. I'd likely not care much about the decision either way. Nonetheless, there seems to me no logical reason to make the seed and or download for a map we are done with and will never use again one of the best-kept secrets of Cemetech.
ACagliano wrote:
I've already chimed in on this in-game, but no harm in putting the cliffnotes here.

I really think the withholding of the seed, or a map download, only has a viable argument while a map is in use (if someone can present an argument for after it is done, feel free). Once we are done with a map, we start fresh, at which point, keeping the seed and map secret are of no real benefit to us. I do know that certain things, this included, have been policy on Cemetech for quite some time; That being said, take care to avoid the fallacious viewpoint that just because something has been policy for a while means it is the right policy, or even that it makes sense. It has never really made sense to me why we don't make map downloads available when we are done with a world. Many other servers with a free-build or survival build theme do. Nonetheless, I haven't really had sufficient motivation to question that policy, and given issues with lag and the occasional griefer, and my focus on PvP, it hasn't really been a concern of mine. While this means I'm not well versed on the arguments for and against, it also means my opinion on this matter is relatively unbiased, in either direction.

To sum, not having maps or seeds available doesn't bother me much. I'd likely not care much about the decision either way. Nonetheless, there seems to me no logical reason to make the seed and or download for a map we are done with and will never use again one of the best-kept secrets of Cemetech.


As someone who doesn't play the server, one of the reasons I'm reluctant to try is that the map is withheld. If I ever get bothered with multiplayer's limitations (no pausing, worse monster spawns, lag, etc) and want to continue the world in single-player later, I'd like that option. Choosing to play on multiplayer is limiting your options for the future if you get attached to the world.
>no litematica\schematica
>no baritone
>no world download
So much for promoting creativity?
I mean, I wouldn't lump in Baritone in with the rest of those, as it's actually cheaty. While I feel like it would be fun to play a game with a flock of Baritone accounts, as it would provide interesting logistical challenges, using it definitely cheapens the achievements of other players on the server, and also changes at a fundamental level how the game is actually played.

That being said, I do agree that, like allowing Litematica, providing a world download after the world's run is over would definitely encourage people to build creative stuff, and I see no reason why the world downloads shouldn't be available.
Speaking of that, would it be possible to use a bunch of Baritone bots to simulate more advanced NPCs than in vanilla Minecraft? That might be interesting, if it's doable.
Michael0x18 wrote:
Speaking of that, would it be possible to use a bunch of Baritone bots to simulate more advanced NPCs than in vanilla Minecraft? That might be interesting, if it's doable.

Certainly! Perhaps you should make a dedicated post? Smile
That would probably be much more resource intensive than using a server-side mod or data pack to do the same.
WoG:
  • We won't offer world downloads of the current world ever, because seeds and finding resources offline.
  • I no longer object to us offering world downloads of the most recent past world, per the quote from me above: I don't remember what my past objection (if any) was, since I agree our players who are playing multiplayer anyway will be more motivated to play in a new world with other people than play single-player on their own. However, I'll be displeased if someone takes the downloads and uses them to re-host the world on their own server.
  • I consider the museum world an awesome, abridged way to see some of the most impressive builds from the past servers, and it has fallen sadly behind. Conceptually, it's a great archive, plus motivation to make particularly impressive builds that can be added to it. Perhaps soon it'll be resolved?
  
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