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Is this going to be a personal ranting topic or what?
Michael2_3B wrote:
How they gonna let us believe in Santa Claus for a while, before realizing he doesn't exist

Michael, comparing God to Santa Claus isn't very nice. Santa doesn't give children malaria.
MateoConLechuga wrote:
Faith is not a virtue. It is willful ignorance with a complete disregard for reality. And I am fed up with it. It is harmful and degrading to us as a species, and if we ever want to progress we must be willing to acknowledge that it is holding us back.

To believe something on faith is to believe something without a good reason, because if you had a good reason you wouldn't need faith. If evidence existed those would be facts, not opinions.

I see now that religion corrupts the minds of people everywhere. And they don't know it, because what they have been taught is that religion is above criticism, above questioning. I was once in that place, and believed it was the one and only truth. But simply wanting something to be true does not make it true.

To say that one can be religious and good, that is fine. I don't care if you believe a Jewish dude died as a scapegoat for you, or if the teachings of Buddha can guide you on a path to enlightenment. But keep things secular. In America now the White House has a Bible Study group. Stop this madness. Stop the spread of bigotry, of homophobia, of criminalizing women for abortions, of rampant pedophilia in churches, and a disregard for science.

The earth is not 6-10 thousand years old. Evolution is a fact, the process a scientific theory. The Big Bang happened. The global flood never happened. The Exodus never happened. There were no talking snakes, donkeys, or people who lived in a whale.

Just because a lot of people believe a lie still makes it a lie. Question everything.


    Christianity and science are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I think science should be the basis of religion, because everything must be rooted in reality. The big bang probably happened. The earth is way older than 6-10 thousand years. Evolution is cleary existent. The great flood, however, probably did happen, considering the Middle East, and more specifically the Mediterranean basin, contained the vast, vast majority of the human population. More interesting, though, is the Christian idea of human life as being created in God's image. The most fascinating phenomena and proof of a higher power is the clear existence of our soul. We are clearly more than just a bundle of cells executing extremely complex genetic code. Think about it. What is self awareness? If we, theoretically, used a powerful computer to completely synthesize every neuron path in our brain, would that computer be self aware? No, because that computer would just be executing extremely complex genetic code. We do that too, but somewhere inside of us there's something more, and this is an easily verifiable fact. If you're just a bundle of cells, then how are you thinking right now? How is it that you exist as a mind? If you were just a bundle of cells, you'd just be a big I/O box. But think about it! You're using your eyes to see and your ears to hear and your mind to think and your soul to exist. There is very clearly something within us as humans that exists beyond our conventional definition of a particle/wave.

    What are the terrible effects of faith? You speak of faith's ability to "corrupt the minds of people everywhere," but what does that mean? What are the negative traits of Christians, for example, that are directly a result of their faith?
MateoConLechuga wrote:
Michael2_3B wrote:
How they gonna let us believe in Santa Claus for a while, before realizing he doesn't exist

Michael, comparing God to Santa Claus isn't very nice. Santa doesn't give children malaria.

I'm not comparing them, I was simply trying to demonstrate the nature of beliefs and how they gradually fade. You can take that for a grain of salt though, I really don't care at this point.

Of course Santa doesn't give children malaria. And God doesn't give them malaria either. Why? Because neither of them exist.

PT_ wrote:
Is this going to be a personal ranting topic or what?

Yeah I guess you have a point there. Perhaps expressing myself this way is too much for you to handle so I should just keep my head down in programming 24/7.
Sam wrote:
What are the terrible effects of faith? You speak of faith's ability to "corrupt the minds of people everywhere," but what does that mean? What are the negative traits of Christians, for example, that are directly a result of their faith?


I know exactly what the rebuttal to this will be when I post it, so let me start off by saying this. Believing in a God does not make you a bad person. Faith in itself does not inherently corrupt you.

However, organized religions are terrible. The Catholic Church does terrible things. And that's all the way up to leaders of the church. If the Pope refuses to dismiss a known child molester from a leadership position then the organized religion is bad. If you are a member of a Church whose leaders are doing evil things, then you are condoning them by continuing to be a member. And doctrine, not just actions of some leaders, is also terrible and corrupting in the Church. The Catholic Church is homophobic and mysogynistic. Most religions are. Islam is the exact same way but 10 times worse.

And if you need proof of what I'm saying, remember this incident. This strikes close to home because I live in PA. And a few of my family members left the Church because of it. I don't know how widely covered the Grand Jury report was elsewhere, but on the local news here they showed the reading of the report live. And it contains graphic accounts by victims. I wanted to throw up watching it. I wanted those priests to be given the death penalty. If you are a Catholic, you need to read that report. It might be linked in that news article. If you can read that and not feel sick to your core, you're mentally deranged. Most people of faith are.
Michael2_3B wrote:
Yeah I guess you have a point there. Perhaps expressing myself this way is too much for you to handle so I should just keep my head down in programming 24/7.

Wow, keep calm, attacking me personally is just a sad thing and won't help anyone.

dankcalculatorbro wrote:
[...]

On the other side, if someone or a local church does something wrong, it doesn't mean the entire worldwide church is responsible for that. I'm refering to this:
Michael2_3B wrote:
How they gonna let us believe in Santa Claus for a while, before realizing he doesn't exist

This is simply not true. Religion has literally nothing to do with believing in Santa Claus or not. That's nowhere said in the Bible, and claiming it does is just wrong.
Michael2_3B wrote:
MateoConLechuga wrote:
Michael2_3B wrote:
How they gonna let us believe in Santa Claus for a while, before realizing he doesn't exist

Michael, comparing God to Santa Claus isn't very nice. Santa doesn't give children malaria.

I'm not comparing them, I was simply trying to demonstrate the nature of beliefs and how they gradually fade. You can take that for a grain of salt though, I really don't care at this point.

Of course Santa doesn't give children malaria. And God doesn't give them malaria either. Why? Because neither of them exist.

PT_ wrote:
Is this going to be a personal ranting topic or what?

Yeah I guess you have a point there. Perhaps expressing myself this way is too much for you to handle so I should just keep my head down in programming 24/7.


Hey Michael2_3B, I want to find a way to resolve anything before it starts.
Let us all agree that God would not ask for this. This website is supposed to be educational, not controversial.
I respect all of you, but there are kids who are seeing these posts, and we can break their hearts. Sure Santa's not real, but the reason for it seems like its so that kids will simply behave and stay away from being mischievous.
Michael2_3B wrote:
How they gonna let us believe in Santa Claus for a while, before realizing he doesn't exist

But then later they wonder why we no longer believe in God

Honestly tired of people attributing things they don't understand to "an act of God"

Something really good or miraculous happens: It's an act of God.
Something really bad happens or people do sh*tty things: God gave you free will.

Honestly, that right there is the biggest double standard ever created. You cannot credit God for the good and then absolve him of the bad. Either you entirely believe God's will shapes reality, or you believe your own choice (and those of the people around you) shapes reality. You cannot have it both ways. That's why I, a long time ago, started identifying more as a spiritualist than a Christian. That and the seemingly growing disconnect between the religion and the teachings on which it's based.
The question isn't about what you believe, or why your particular religion doesn't conflict with science, or why you are right and everyone else is wrong. This isn't about being right.

The question is:

Is Faith is a reliable pathway to the truth about reality?

Edit: Also, because you had a coherent question:

Sam wrote:
You speak of faith's ability to "corrupt the minds of people everywhere," but what does that mean? What are the negative traits of Christians, for example, that are directly a result of their faith?

The belief that women are inferior. Sure, you might not think that because you live in a secular community, but you should really read the bible someday.
Right, I apologize if I offended anyone, I'll try to be a bit more mature. I shouldn't have attacked you PT_ I wasn't thinking.

However:
PT_ wrote:
Religion has literally nothing to do with believing in Santa Claus or not. That's nowhere said in the Bible, and claiming it does is just wrong.

I never ever said Santa was in the Bible or had anything to do with religion. That is honestly the silliest thing I have ever heard. I simply compared two figures that people tend to believe in and perhaps that too was a stupid thing to do. Anyways, I won't debate this any further.

ACagliano wrote:
Either you entirely believe God's will shapes reality, or you believe your own choice (and those of the people around you) shapes reality.

I agree wholeheartedly. Your reality is completely up to you, you either accept the reality you're currently in or you take a risk and have courage to totally change it.

Ultimately I just want the best for everyone. You can believe whatever you want to believe, just make sure your belief system isn't limiting you.
Faith matters. No it doesn't. We need evidence. No we don't.

Stop ignoring the morals. Start noticing the evils.

The world with religion is chaos.

The world without religion is chaos.

If you saw things my way, there wouldn't be chaos.
If you saw things my way, there wouldn't be chaos.

You are in the dark and I'm trying to show you the light.
You are in the dark and I'm trying to show you the light.

(Religion unspecified)
Replying to everyone since my last post in order:

PT_ wrote:
On the other side, if someone or a local church does something wrong, it doesn't mean the entire worldwide church is responsible for that.


I agree with you. That's why I specified leaders, in bold. Because all members of the Catholic Church are responsible for the child molesting done by their priests. I hold all Catholics personally accountable for Pope Francis's failure to act, because Pope Francis is the head. And you are supporting the church, its leadership hierarchy, and its doctrine by being a member. Francis represents the entire church. So while an action done by one local leader doesn't represent an entire church, actions by the top members of a church do. I could say that not every Al-Qaeda member is a terrorist just because some of them have committed a terror attack. That would be a lie. Every member of Al-Qaeda is a terrorist. And every Catholic is condoning child rape.

TimmyTurner62 wrote:
I want to find a way to resolve anything before it starts.
Let us all agree that God would not ask for this. This website is supposed to be educational, not controversial.


First of all, consider the fact that this thread is primarily a voiced disagreement between believers in God and non-believers. So although some people may agree that God would not ask for this, others would argue that something that does not exist cannot ask for anything, or they may have a different idea of what God would ask for. There is a specific section on this website for controversial topics. The rant section that this post was made under calls for civil and intelligent debates and arguments. That is exactly what this is. This thread is educational, and there is nothing wrong with people debating. It is fine if that bothers you, but you have the liberty to just log off the Internet whenever you want. There is no one keeping you here against your will.

ACagliano wrote:
Either you entirely believe God's will shapes reality, or you believe your own choice ... shapes reality


Agreed. One of the many hypocritical beliefs of religion. God himself created sin. The religion calls for tolerance and love for all peoples but the UMC decides that homosexuals are no longer welcome in their congregations.

MateoConLechuga wrote:
The question isn't about what you believe, or why your particular religion doesn't conflict with science, or why you are right and everyone else is wrong. This isn't about being right.

The question is:

Is Faith is a reliable pathway to the truth about reality?


Like Mateo said, it is important to note that no one here is trying to attack someone else's faith and tell them it is wrong. Personally, I don't believe that certain people are correct, but I don't care what they want to think as long as they are not hurting other people. Being misogynistic and homophobic is something that I don't stand.

Michael also reaffirmed in his post that he doesn't care what people choose to believe. Frankly, you can't change people's minds very easily, especially after indoctrination at a young age. And I believe that religion can provide a moral compass for people to follow to better themselves. I just believe that the moral compass of many religions provide a lot of bad as well.

Weregoose, just to reiterate my point as it applies to your post. I'm not trying to show people the light that I believe is right. I'm trying to show them the evil that they believe is good.
Another comment I'll make. Have any of you heard of the following riddle: Can God create a rock that is so heavy, he cannot lift it? And the paradox it puts a person of religion/faith in? If God cannot create a rock that he can't lift, then he's not all powerful. If he can create said rock, then he can't lift it, and he's still not all powerful.

You'll pose that to a more religious-text-minded, more religious person and they'll tell you to "stop questioning" or "stop making fun of God". But now wait a minute... it's a legitimate question? Faith can ask you to believe in something you cannot necessarily prove, but it still has to withstand the test of logic. There is a very big difference between accepting something possible but improbable and calling it faith, which is perfectly fine, and accepting something nonsensical and paradoxical as fact, ignoring logic, and discounting the logic of anyone who questions it. That second option takes a religion down the path of cultism.

So my point is this. Be open to intelligent discourse, even if it calls your faith into question. It evolves you as a person, can strengthen your faith, can open you up to new perspectives. And if you're a Christian, I can tell you firsthand your entire religion was founded on the words of a man who explicitly encouraged us to question the norm.
Science v. Faith:

  
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