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SharpClaw007 wrote:
If I can resist and I'm not even in high school I think you guys can Mad

No I am saying that DCE will never be released.
MateoConLechuga wrote:
SharpClaw007 wrote:
If I can resist and I'm not even in high school I think you guys can Mad

No I am saying that DCE will never be released.

Well, that is an anticlimactic answer. Why would you say that?
A few reasons. Kerm is really busy with life, work and whatever, and some people come to this site just to ask for it. Lots of pokes, no free time. Maybe it's not going to never come out, but we're going to just have to wait.

Everyone that owns a CE wants DCE. That's clear. (Maybe a few exceptions). Poking shows interest, as stated before. If you want it, maybe don't ask for a beta version, but just state your interest in it. Kerm might find some free time, and decide to work on it, but poking may (or may not) annoy him.
Quote:
Everyone that owns a CE wants DCE. That's clear.

General note: be careful with such kinds of blanket statements, because someone could (more or less, depending on the situation) easily find counter-examples Wink

Perhaps the reasons why people request DCE should be examined. Frankly, and without aggressive / ill intent. The goal here is not to hurt feelings.

I can think of two main reasons for users' desire for DCE:
1) first and foremost, and probably mainly, the fame of the "Doors" name is undeniable. Indeed:
* DCS 7.x grew up to become one of the best so-called "shells" for the monochrome TI-Z80 series, though the amount of features was unavoidably matched by a large size which represented a significant proportion of the archive space on the 83+ and 84+ non-SE;
* DCSE 8.0 was basically the only high-featured "shell" on the 84+CSE;
* on the TI-68k series, DoorsOS was popular, despite its own unstability and that of a number of the so-called "kernel"-based programs of the late 1990s and early 2000s, written in an unsafe way and repeatedly broken by TI's future software upgrades.
As a result, lots of programs require DC-specific functionality, and various pieces of other documentation (including forum posts) advise to use "Doors". On the TI-68k series, the modern alternatives' (UniOS at some point, then PreOS) popularity probably never surpassed that of DoorsOS; arguably, the same thing has been occuring for several years on the late TI-Z80 and current TI-eZ80 series.

2) to a lesser extent, the planned feature set of DCE, derived from that of DCS + DCSE, is clearly great.
That said... not only said feature set is not materializing for the general public, but also, Cesium has already been providing most of it for years. In an open-source way, at that. And too many people are unaware of that, unfortunately.
Cesium set a number of de-facto standards, some of which were derived from the TI-68k PreOS because it made complete functional sense: they do raise the baseline level of functionality offered by shells on the TI-(e)Z80 series. Again, these standards are implemented in an open-source way (except for Zilog's horrible C compiler, of course).
Being so late to the party, DCE (if it were to be ever released) obviously has to conform to them: the community can't afford the stupid fragmentation which would ensue from DCE being incompatible with the existing community toolchain and shared framework behind Cesium...
But integration with the superior, shared framework raises the amount of work required for porting DCSE to the TI-eZ80: DCSE did its own things on some aspects. On the TI-eZ80 series, DCE is not trailblazing and trendsetting: it would be, at best, an outlier.

I'm well aware that extended TI-Basic libraries (xLIB and friends) aren't part of Cesium or available on top of the shared framework. But it's clear that extended TI-Basic libs shouldn't be strongly tied to any shell - neither Cesium, nor DCE, nor any other "shell". That's called good architecture and respecting users' freedom. I've been writing it for years.
If the shared framework needs extensions to make it easier to build xLIB and friends... well, so be it ? It's open source anyway.
Also, in the meantime, some new Basic libraries came out and produce good results; not to mention the ICE top contender, which is still evolving. Like Axe, ICE is a good way not to be tied to the TI-Basic's well-known limitations in the first place. And it's not necessarily that much harder to program than extended TI-Basic.

[EDIT: Adriweb reminds me that among the flagship features of DCS / DCSE, neither startup hooks, nor fake folders can be implemented on recent versions of the calculator's OS. TI removed the former at some point, and they started using for their own purposes the byte previously used by DCS / DCSE for the latter.]


FTR, I, and probably most people, would not focus on stuff for obsolete and overpriced hardware such as our beloved calculators, if they had companies of their own (Kerm) and/or children (tr1p1ea, others). Or more explicitly, I think Kerm's right not to spend much time on DCE, considering his other non-calculator-related activities and duties, as well as the Cesium competitor Smile
It's so sad that Cesium, one of the only CE shells out there, continually is encompassed by DCE. A shell that is not released and has no set release date.
When will it be Released?
MinecraftPS4 wrote:
When will it be Released?

Read the thread. Rolling Eyes
MateoConLechuga wrote:
SharpClaw007 wrote:
If I can resist and I'm not even in high school I think you guys can Mad

No I am saying that DCE will never be released.
When will it be rele... er I mean if it gets delayed by 1 week everytime someone asks, then you're right. xd
I love how much of a joke this whole thread has been. I can't find issue with cesium really.
Domino 464 wrote:
I love how much of a joke this whole thread has been. I can't find issue with cesium really.

Yes, and about half of this entire thread can be summed up in one question: "When will it be released?"

SAX/IRC wrote:
[#] *KermPhD rolls his eyes
[#] [Runer112] hey this topic is flooded with posts about X that provide no value
[#] [Runer112] let's post about the posts about X
[#] [comic] OKAY
[#] [Runer112] surely posting about something that provides no value will provide value
[#] [Runer112] two wrongs cancelling out and whatnot
[Michael2_3B] Hey let's all post in sax about people posting in the post about people posting in the post about x that provides no value
[#] [Runer112] IRC is always off the rails
[#] [Runer112] can't derail a train that's already derailed
Domino 464 wrote:
I love how much of a joke this whole thread has been. I can't find issue with cesium really.


Yeah, the things that I'm excited for in Doors os folder support and the hybrid BASIC libraries, and the UI...
As I wrote above, on this same page:
* TI started using for their own purposes the byte previously used by DCS for fake folders support;
* hybrid BASIC libraries could and should be "shell"-independent.
How about a little shameless self-promotion? Razz

Since everyone on this topic wants to talk about a new shell comming out, I am developing a shell here that is in its beta stage (i.e runs basic and asm, but sometimes glitches). It may not have fake folders and Hybrid support, but it is a new shell for those of you who somehow find a problem with Cesium.
Hey, how about some non-self promotion?

BOSShell has folder support, and many different file types support. beckadamtheinventor is developing this shell and is looking for help. it has BASIC, ASM, folder, and some windows file (conversion) support. I'm sure Hybrid basic could be added into it at some point. This is also in ICE.


Cesium works for me, and I think it's awesome. I make my friends sad when I turn on my password, and amaze them with the launching hook. I hide all my programs to fool them. I also do want DCE, but all in good time.
On the subject of BOSshell,
I believe beckadamtheinventor was also working on some add-ons for ICE, which I guess could be called hybrid-ICE libraries? Laughing
I would like to hereby decree the coinage of a new term
  
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