It may actually matter very much, but that doesn't mean I have the right to get involved. The point is that how much I think it matters (or not) should not be embedded in the legal system.

This is a fiction invented by the French government after their genocide against Catholics at the end of the 18th century as a method of further societal control against religious people.

Civil marriage laws have about as ugly a history as gun control and forced resettlement when it comes to tools of oppression and societal control.

Your community and your government (at every level but the most local) have very little to do with one another.

There are quite a few gay spouses without legal citizenship who would disagree with you. They can't voice their disagreement because they've already been deported by a government that did not recognize their marriage.

Precisely. In other words, part of the government needs to recognize your marriage so that the rest of the government is forced to respect your rights as a couple in all other legal matters(hospital visitation, death benefits, immigration status, 5th amendment protections, etc.).

Which is to say: civil marriage laws have been used as tools of oppression to drive them out of their home. Which is to say, my point exactly.


You really oughtn't have rights as a couple at all, any more than a corporation should have rights as a corporation. But neither should you lose any of your individual rights just because you participate in a joint enterprise of one sort or another.

Cross-posting from the Ender's Game Anticipation thread, to redirect any political conversation, and to serve as a hook for anyone who might be interested in LGBT rights and not otherwise see the relevant discussion from that thread.

So when you buy the book or a ticket to the movie, you make an equal donation to this thing and then that money goes to groups that fight the anti-gay groups that book or movie ticket sale would support? Neat.

Exactly.

I don't support same-sex marrige on a morale level, as I am Christain, but I beleive state and church should be seperate, and since America is free, it should be legal.

Although I'm christian, there are times when I fell gay, but overal I would rather be married to a girl, so I say I'm heterosexual. I also have alot to say about "LGBT" but I'll make another topic about that.

>2014
>still talking about gay marriage

Exactly, it is almost literally the least important issue in the nation and yet it's 2014 and people still are putting it on the level of immigration reform, homelessness prevention, economic reform, environmental protection, abortion/life debates, reform of the 2 party system and attempts to decrease government corruption, NSA, extreme government spending, etc.

It's still degeneracy (religion or not, come on, we all know it's pretty degenerate, whether you deny it or not) and being 2014 doesn't change that, but again it's unimportant compared to almost everything else, so I'm mostly neutral. By neutral, I think the battle is won/lost (depending on what side you're on), and that gay rights will prevail -- I'm just hoping it resolves quickly and we can focus on something of actual importance. Everyone will pretend it's the same as 1960's civil rights when it's obviously not, and we'll have lots of celebration over historically gay figures and have a national "Walt Whitman was Gay" day or whatever. Fine, it's already going to happen. There is absolutely no point in arguing about the legality or morality of it any further, realistically.

The gay movement has grabbed control of the media and no matter how unimportant the movement is, the perceived "sexual and marital rights" of a small minority of the country are going to overshadow more important issues that plague larger groups for many years to come.

Jeez! Why is gay marriage such a problem?!? Marriage is marriage is marriage is marriage. They talk about religion, but that line in the bible is something about not making natural desires into unnatural ones, which could mean anything. If a guy likes guys or a girl likes girls, who are we to argue? It's just like racism to discriminate against them. I mean, it's not like they are getting married with animals.

This is why marriage is important.

Well, we apparently can't go a year without the topic resurfacing, and since the bible verses are starting to get tossed around again, I figured now would be a good time to remind everyone to not be jerks:


Also, I think everyone would benefit from actually reading the thread before posting in here, as basically everything has already been covered. You're probably not going to add anything new to the discussion, and it's just going to go in the same circles it has been going in since 2010.

If this topic is important to you, take the time to read all 20+ pages, take notes, and formulate something thoughtful / original to say. If you can't be bothered and/or you're just spouting off, your posts aren't welcome here. Which is to say, impress me, or this topic is just going to be locked and will go to an "approved posts" only format, wherein you can PM me with the content of a hypothetical post asking for permission to post it.

I'm done here.

Why do we have an over 20-page debate on same sex-marriage? If you are religious, than fine, do what you believe in and whats happened over the last thousands of years. If you're for same-sex marriage. Fine, than go for it. There's nothing in the way of that. If you can' stand same-sex marriage than don't expose yourself to forums like this. (sigh), what has this world come to. Once upon a time, you had to "date" a girl in front of the father, and if all things went well you got married. Maybe if we went back to that we wouldn't have a 50% divorce rate (No, I seriously don't mean to actually go all 19th century again. Just saying... WTF has this world gotten to!?!?

This is just a thread about people's different opinions. Also necropost

Such a necropost x__x

That said, I'm not sure how old you are, but it was a much bigger deal then than it is now (even just a few years later).

I'm sure it seems 'obvious' to you that same sex marriage is no big deal, but to others it seems equally 'obvious' to oppose it. Both sides get instant gratification when they announce their views and people can chime in with, "yeah, our opinion is the obvious way, theirs is wrong."

Also, even if that 50% divorce statistic is true anymore, that's still leaving 50% of marriages being life long. And keep in mind that a lot of the divorces are from already divorced people. So ex. If there are 64 marriages and 32 divorce and remarry and then 16 of them divorce and remarry, etc, then there would end up being 127 marriages of which 63 end in divorce, but all but one ends in a marriage that lasts.

So like 98% of those couples end up married for life, resulting in a roughly 50% divorce rate

From this report on baby boomers:
"Approximately 42 percent of marriages that took place between ages 15 and 46 ended in divorce by age 46."

The first report on this CDC page indicates similar rates and that marriage and divorce are declining.

Plus, if a marriage is leaving you feeling terrible and it can't be fixed, why stay in it? People grow and change and divorce can be the right choice. The stigma of divorce is pretty f'd up in my opinion.


In my opinion, marriage should be between one person and a harem of calculators. Polyamory ftw. As long as it's consensual, you do you.

EDIT: Holy heck, totally relevant ad:

Bible verse proving gay marriage wrong:

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Romans 1:24-27