Tari wrote:
I'm really liking where you're going with this. I hope to see something glorious when you're done!
Thanks, I'd definitely appreciate any feedback if you (or anyone else) has detailed thoughts on what I've proposed.
[edit]
Huge text dump of theory crafting I did with another strategy-nerd friend. Divided into three sections, the middle and last are the most interesting from my perspective. One is making upgrades tiered, and one is talking about a rework of the essential Zerg building mechanic. Thoughts would be appreciated, especially from people who have some familiarity with Settlers, Starcraft, or strategy games in general.
Planetary Fortress Balance wrote:
norval.r: Buff PF
norval.r: Too week from a pure settlers PoV
elfprince13: you think so?
elfprince13: it allows *all* your buildings to harvest from the hexes it protects
elfprince13: do you think I should buff the abilities? or just make it a cheaper upgrade?
norval.r: All building huh, I must have miss read as only it
Tiered Upgrades wrote:
norval.r: Lockdown needs playtesting
norval.r: Appears so strong late game
elfprince13: if you were to replace it
elfprince13: or nerf it
elfprince13: any suggestions?
norval.r: Cost increase 1 card. Or potential 2 of a different resource
norval.r: Else sheep man can toss extra sheep he has tones too many of to lockout another player from a resourc
elfprince13: oh, yeah, I hadn't settled on which 2 resources, or if they needed to be the same type
elfprince13: but I'll keep that in mind
norval.r: Terrans modular neosteel
norval.r: How does your upgrades work?
elfprince13: you can have 3 adjacent terran structures
elfprince13: with only 1 road between each 1
norval.r: ... How do I acquire it
norval.r: That's powerful
elfprince13: buy it from the same place as the other upgrades. That's the other thing I haven't decided is if upgrades are from a shuffled pile, or hand selected as in Starfarers of Catan
norval.r: Shuffle may lead to RNG gods syndrome, recommend tech teirs
elfprince13: yeah, I wanted to make it more strategic
elfprince13: but I wasn't sure if that would make upgrading more or less balanced
elfprince13: Tech tiers might be a good idea
norval.r: Randomization isn't balance, clearly their are upgrades I want more of than others
norval.r: 2-2-1 seems like a good diminution. With terrains top being neosteel
norval.r: Need to buy 1 tier 1. Then 1 teir 2 then can buy teir 3
elfprince13: good idea
norval.r: Raiding party or stim makes good teir 1 for t
norval.r: Hard shield and warp in for toss
elfprince13: Khaydarin or Transmute for T3?
norval.r: Transmute
norval.r: Perhaps 3:2 option also
norval.r: Needs playtest
elfprince13: yeah, playtest is going to be fun
Rework Zerg wrote:
norval.r: How's creep work?
elfprince13: I think I'm going to make a computer client as well
elfprince13: creep is basically roads for zerg
norval.r: Please
elfprince13: but cheaper
elfprince13: and can die
norval.r: So metabolic and chits ions for Zerg teir 1.... Can die?
elfprince13: I was thinking if creep was disconnected from a hatchery by enemy buildings it would die
elfprince13: but maybe that's dumb
elfprince13: I was trying to make a decent tradeoff for it being so cheap
norval.r: Zerg play already encourages complete surrounding a tile
norval.r: Same as Terran play really
elfprince13: well, Terran play encourages clustering in little Y's
elfprince13: since a PF protects three hexes
norval.r: Or full surround of the 6/8
elfprince13: hmm, that's true too
elfprince13: PF + neosteel might be OP o_O
norval.r: With a orbital on every point, maybe 5 orbital and 1 pf
elfprince13: except there's a limit
norval.r: Yes 6
elfprince13: no, you can't have a total of more than 4 PFs and orbitals together
elfprince13: so there's a tradeoff there
norval.r: 3 orbital 1 PDF 2 cc on an 8
elfprince13: yeah
norval.r: I say
elfprince13: that could be scary
norval.r: Zerg has only 1 hatch
norval.r: And it tech to lair and hive
elfprince13: explain?
norval.r: Any tile with 3 (4) edges creeped than provides resources
norval.r: Hatch tech multiples it
norval.r: Hive gives 3 resources whenever a creeped tile is rolled
elfprince13: you mean lair tech multiplies it?
norval.r: Yeah
elfprince13: also, Zerg should have 2 hatches at least, because otherwise setup is imba
norval.r: Give them more creep to compensate?
elfprince13: hmm
elfprince13: I'll think about this
norval.r: Hatch can border 3 hex max
norval.r: So it's value is 9 creep? Maybe 8 creep
norval.r: Creep is edge right?
elfprince13: yeah
norval.r: So give Zerg hatch plus 10 creep
norval.r: Can cover maximum, h/o time to draw
elfprince13: hmmmmmm
norval.r: Yeah with 10 creep plus hatch Zerg can start on 6 tiles covered
elfprince13: ok
elfprince13: then we'd obviously have to nix the "creep can die" thing
norval.r: Yeap
norval.r: Maybe
norval.r: Zergs would go cover map so fast
norval.r: Perhaps creep can be killed if cut off, causing Zerg to surround tiles fully
elfprince13: I like where this is going, but I'm not sure how easy it will be to balance
norval.r: Vs just making a straight line
elfprince13: but then you could still cut it off from a 3rd of the tile?
elfprince13: and I'll need to come up with another Zerg upgrade if I went with this instead
norval.r: We kinda just need to open a settler board
norval.r: And give ourself large resources
elfprince13: hmm?
norval.r: To see how the other players react to Zerg aggressive expansion
norval.r: Also ad has learned zerg
norval.r: Ipad
elfprince13: ah, yeah.
elfprince13: maybe I'll poll some of my other settlers playing friends
norval.r: How much does creep cost and how much cc cost?
elfprince13: the reason I tried to encourage Zerg clustering before
elfprince13: was to have a "fast spreading" feel
elfprince13: without making it take over the whole board too fast
elfprince13: right now I have it set to 2 creeps for the price of a road
elfprince13: but that could be tweaked if I changed the Zerg mechanic significantly
norval.r: So lets think here, if I Terran and expand, I built 2 roads and a cc and now have access to 2 new titles and double access to previous
norval.r: For serfs to creep up 2 new tiles it would cost 6 creep (unsafe)
norval.r: Or 11 creep to fully surround a 2 new tiles
norval.r: Creep, is now your new goal
elfprince13: so would "safe creep" be copying the eye mechanic from Go?
elfprince13: instead of plugging intersections?
norval.r: Eye mechanic?
elfprince13: full enclosure?
elfprince13: I was thinking building spacing to protect creep on old system
norval.r: Yes
elfprince13: but new system only has 1 building on a vertex
elfprince13: (I take it you've never played Go?)
norval.r: Only read about it
elfprince13: ok
elfprince13: I need to do homework
elfprince13: but I'm going to sleep on this
elfprince13: I'd be happier if I could make Zerg start with 1 hatch + 9 creep
elfprince13: because then it could be "place 5 pieces in each phase of your turn"
elfprince13: for setup
norval.r: We'd need to be mindful of creep kill mechanics in setup
elfprince13: and if it was slightly lower resource production initially, that would also partially offset the higher rate of expansion
elfprince13: maybe disallow creep-kill during setup? or just make zerg players make tradeoffs between safety and initial reach?
norval.r: I think your first point is good, creep kill needs work.... I say put it off till a sound Zerg expansive mode is developed
norval.r: Then balance cost vs ability to be killed
elfprince13: and brainstorm options for scoring and another upgrade if only 1 primary structure