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Rascherite
New Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2011
Posts: 93
Location: Under a heaping pile of saxophones
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 Posted: 03 Jan 2012 08:17:07 pm Post subject: Creating my own z80 linker? |
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While Kerm's binpac is an enormous blessing to the ti community and I am thankful for it every time I assemble a program, I've always wanted to make my own linker in C++ so that I can run it as an .exe on a computer without python, and, even better, to get a better idea of how linkers work and what they do.
I know that I could just pop open binpac.py and look over the source code, but it isn't very well commented (sorry Kerm!  ), and, on top of that, I have practically no experience with the Python libs that Kerm uses in binpac!
Thanks in advance!  |
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Ashbad
... I think redheaded girls are kind of cool
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 2417
Location: Stomp Stomp Stomp, The Idiot Convention
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 08:24:49 pm Post subject: |
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Well, what do you want to know, how a linker works, or even what in general one does?
Basically, what linkers do is that they take a raw output file (in z80 assembly case, usually a .hex file) and turn it into a file runnable on the platform. As for what Kerm's does, I just scanned through it and it basically is adding headers to the file, and outputting the file in an .8** and adding things to the file's header like "**TI83**" so that it is recognized by a connection/sending program as a valid file for that platform.
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shkaboinka
Power User
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 371
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 08:36:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I recommend using Java, if that's an option, because practically EVERY computer has the Java Runtime on it. An exe is only good for Windows. |
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_player1537
Guru-in-Training
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 2957
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 08:40:02 pm Post subject: |
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You need the JVM to run Java code, and you need Wine to run a .exe. Everyone on Windows can run the exe without a single extra thing, and anyone on Linux is going to need to download something to run either, so why use Java instead? Then you just make both parties download something.
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seana11
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Joined: 23 May 2011
Posts: 833
Location: Well, the sign says "You are here"...
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_player1537
Guru-in-Training
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 2957
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 08:43:22 pm Post subject: |
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If Wine didn't work for something as simple as input, string concatenation (sp), and output, no one would even think to use it.
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seana11
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Joined: 23 May 2011
Posts: 833
Location: Well, the sign says "You are here"...
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Qwerty.55
Expert
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 613
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 08:47:54 pm Post subject: |
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| _player1537 wrote: |
2. Wine doesn't always work (Wine Is Not an Emulator). Java does. |
How does the second part of that follow the first part? A name shouldn't have much impact on the quality of the environment simulation...
Anyway, as for the subject of Linking, I highly recommend that you look at the wikipedia article on the subject as well as the external links presented therein.
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Last edited by Qwerty.55 on 03 Jan 2012 08:50:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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_player1537
Guru-in-Training
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 2957
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 08:48:23 pm Post subject: |
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Then clearly Fedora isn't a major distro/OS because it doesn't come with Wine nor Java. If the OP said he wanted to write it in C/C++, let him. If anything, we already have a super-portable Python linker, so there isn't a reason to change languages simply for compatability.
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Ashbad
... I think redheaded girls are kind of cool
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 2417
Location: Stomp Stomp Stomp, The Idiot Convention
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 08:49:47 pm Post subject: |
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Why worry about Wine? Is it *really* that hard to distribute the source along with an .exe build and a generic linux one? Or just let Linux users build it themselves?
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shkaboinka
Power User
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 371
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 08:49:57 pm Post subject: |
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It is extremely rare to find a computer without the JRE anymore. I am certain that the number of personal computers with Java outnumber the number of personal computers running Windows (or anything else), hands down. However, C/C++ will make a very solid program, provided it doesn't do anything dangerous; and provided that it's just a command-line program, it can run on multiple machines if recompiled for the major ones and all versions are released. Java is not as solid (fast/low-level), but it is safer and much more universal.
However, something that can run in a browser (JavaScript, PHP, etc.) would be even more universal 
...But all in all, C++ is a pretty good choice. I just think Java is more accessible.
As for [insert linux distro that nobody is going to have unless they are computer savy enough to make downloading a JRE trivial ...] users, are you that bent against not having Java (the "write once, run anywhere" language) on your machine!? Whenever I found a computer without it, I'd always "fix" it, since it "should" be there ... but that's rare now. ... But I hear ya, because I was bent against having the .NET framework on mine (pssh, you certainly can NOT just expect that to be anywhere ... though C# is amazing).
...Sorry, this is getting a bit out of hand. Java was a suggestion because (aside from the let's choose an obscure OS that is in the 1% of those without Java) it's universal. But that's to say that one language is better than another, and that is certainly not true; it's all preference. If you prefer C++, use that because TONS of software for ANY platform is written in C++. When you look for software online, you find an exe or whatever works for your OS anyway
Last edited by shkaboinka on 03 Jan 2012 09:00:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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seana11
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Joined: 23 May 2011
Posts: 833
Location: Well, the sign says "You are here"...
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_player1537
Guru-in-Training
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 2957
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 08:53:57 pm Post subject: |
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... Yes it is. That's how I got Wine, from the repos. (On the other hand, I got Java from Sun, not the repos).
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seana11
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benryves
Cemetech Expert
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 1357
Location: London, United Kingdom
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 09:35:45 pm Post subject: |
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Which assembler are you using? If it's Brass (part of the DoorsCS SDK) then there's no need for any linker as Brass itself is capable of generating calculator binaries directly with the .binarymode directive; replace the combile.bat with the following:
Code:
@echo off
cls
echo ----------------------------------
echo Doors CS Assembler\Compiler
echo Version 2.0
echo Written by Kerm Martian
echo http:\\www.Cemetech.net
echo ----------------------------------
echo ----- Assembling %1 for the TI-83/84 Plus...
echo #define TI83P >tasm\%1.asm
echo .binarymode ti8x >tasm\%1.asm
if exist source\%1.asm type source\%1.asm >>tasm\%1.asm
if exist source\%1.z80 type source\%1.z80 >>tasm\%1.asm
cd tasm
brass %1.asm ..\exec\%1.8xp -l ..\list\%1.list.html
if errorlevel 1 goto ERRORS
echo ----- %1 for the TI-83/84 Plus Assembled and Compiled.
echo TI-83 Plus version is %1.8xp
goto DONE
:ERRORS
echo ----- There were errors.
cd..
:DONE
del ..\tasm\%1.asm >nul
cd..
(Note that, of course, Brass is a .exe yet being a .NET application will run just fine on platforms with an equivalent to the .NET framework, e.g. Mono). |
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souvik1997
Guru-in-Training
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 2870
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 09:41:56 pm Post subject: |
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This has turned into a language debate. :/
To the OP, you could look at this. It includes a file describing the structure of 8xp files, and it includes an .exe and source (but it's in VB  ).
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benryves
Cemetech Expert
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 1357
Location: London, United Kingdom
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TheStorm
NOU!
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 2375
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2012 10:25:28 pm Post subject: |
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This indeed, a live copy can also be found on Merth's site at a URL I don't recall and http://jonimoose.net/calcstuff/tilp/docs/linkguide/ As well as somewhere on http://lpg.ticalc.org. Though the tilp dev's, namely Lionel haven't released an update to it in a while corrections in the form of patches are welcome.
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"Always code as if the person who will maintain your code is a maniac serial killer that knows where you live" -Unknown
"If you've done something right no one will know that you've done anything at all" -Futurama
"Have a nice day, or not, the choice is yours." Tom Steiner
<Michael_V> or create a Borg collective and call it The 83+
<Michael_V> Lower your slide cases and prepare to be silent linked. Memory clears are futile. |
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Rascherite
New Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2011
Posts: 93
Location: Under a heaping pile of saxophones
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| Posted: 04 Jan 2012 12:51:53 am Post subject: |
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| souvik1997 wrote: | | This has turned into a language debate. :/ |
...but I really enjoyed reading the language debate!!
| shkaboinka wrote: | | ...Sorry, this is getting a bit out of hand. Java was a suggestion because (aside from the let's choose an obscure OS that is in the 1% of those without Java) it's universal. But that's to say that one language is better than another, and that is certainly not true; it's all preference. If you prefer C++, use that because TONS of software for ANY platform is written in C++. When you look for software online, you find an exe or whatever works for your OS anyway |
I liked all the points you made, and I agree with what you're saying. Even though java would be a good decision, I feel much more comfortable in C++, and, anyways, most of my friends are non-computer-savvy Windows users, so a .exe will run on any other machine I need it to.
The whole point of me wanting to do this is to have a single folder to drag around on my thumb drive so that I can assemble and debug asm almost anywhere, right? All the z80 assemblers I know about are .exe, so using java for compatibility is a mute point if you can't even run the assembler 
Thanks for the batch file, benryves! I'll start using it before I even start my linker project, but I want to try and write a linker anyways, it sounds like great fun!
(I just realized that people would laugh at me for saying that anywhere but Cemetech. You guys are great)
and, speaking of Brass, thank you for making it! You did a fantastic job!
Also, thanks to ben, souvik, and storm for the documentation. It helps a TON.
Correct me if I'm suffering from beginners' ignorance, but isn't this actually pretty (really) easy?
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TI BASIC Sudoku - optimizing random puzzle generator, making number of preset squares more even and reliable
asm metronome - trying to figure out how to dougie with the interrupts |
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benryves
Cemetech Expert
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 1357
Location: London, United Kingdom
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| Posted: 04 Jan 2012 05:45:18 am Post subject: |
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| Rascherite wrote: | | and, speaking of Brass, thank you for making it! You did a fantastic job! |
You wouldn't say that if you've seen the code (it was one of my first C# projects, and I'm amazed it works at all). Thanks, though.
| Quote: | | Correct me if I'm suffering from beginners' ignorance, but isn't this actually pretty (really) easy? |
It's pretty easy indeed. |
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