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Bluetooth Dataglove
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Pseudoprogrammer


Awesomesauce


Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 890
Posted: 16 Apr 2008 04:42:20 pm    Post subject:
Quote:
thread, a bluetooth keyboard (if such a thing exists), and


http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/8193/
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KermMartian


Site Admin


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55773
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posted: 17 Apr 2008 04:51:44 pm    Post subject:
Pseudoprogrammer wrote:
Quote:
thread, a bluetooth keyboard (if such a thing exists), and


http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/8193/
Yeah, but that's not well-suited to taking apart and using in a dataglove. Smile
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KermMartian


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Posted: 17 Apr 2008 09:15:18 pm    Post subject:
No, I already have an RF wireless keyboard, I would prefer BT so I don't need the USB dongle on the receiving end. I now know there are several such products, the cheapest of which are made by Dell, and others of which are made by Logitech. Spec'ing out which would be best atm.
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Kllrnohj


/=\ PH34R |\/|3


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 8189
Posted: 17 Apr 2008 11:05:59 pm    Post subject:
KermMartian wrote:
No, I already have an RF wireless keyboard, I would prefer BT so I don't need the USB dongle on the receiving end. I now know there are several such products, the cheapest of which are made by Dell, and others of which are made by Logitech. Spec'ing out which would be best atm.


USB receivers are better than BT ones since for all intent and purpose they don't need a driver. They'll work perfectly in everything from Windows to Linux to the BIOS...
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TheStorm


NOU!


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 2375
Posted: 18 Apr 2008 06:58:53 am    Post subject:
the only thing is he wants to use it to make his data glove whatever you call it and since he wants that to be bluetooth he'll want a bluetooth keyboard to make it with. In the end I don't think it will be a keyboard anyway.
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Kllrnohj


/=\ PH34R |\/|3


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 8189
Posted: 18 Apr 2008 08:38:37 am    Post subject:
TheStorm wrote:
the only thing is he wants to use it to make his data glove whatever you call it and since he wants that to be bluetooth he'll want a bluetooth keyboard to make it with. In the end I don't think it will be a keyboard anyway.


I know, but thanks for quoting me, saying absolutely nothing, and not countering my point at all.
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KermMartian


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Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55773
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Posted: 18 Apr 2008 09:59:45 am    Post subject:
Kllrnohj wrote:
TheStorm wrote:
the only thing is he wants to use it to make his data glove whatever you call it and since he wants that to be bluetooth he'll want a bluetooth keyboard to make it with. In the end I don't think it will be a keyboard anyway.


I know, but thanks for quoting me, saying absolutely nothing, and not countering my point at all.
OK, I have a valid rebuttal. I have an RF keyboard that I took apart, and its antenna loop is about 2' in length, or about 1 foot long if doubled over on itself. I found that range decreases rapidly if it is coiled together, and even in a 4"-diameter loop the range isn't more than about two or three feet. Hence Bluetooth has a substantial advantage.
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Kllrnohj


/=\ PH34R |\/|3


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 8189
Posted: 18 Apr 2008 03:43:14 pm    Post subject:
bluetooth will still need an antenna, and that is more a problem of that particular keyboard anyway...
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Last edited by Kllrnohj on 19 Apr 2008 12:01:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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KermMartian


Site Admin


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55773
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posted: 18 Apr 2008 04:36:38 pm    Post subject:
Kllrnohj wrote:
bluetooth will still need an antennae, and that is more a problem of that particular keyboard anyway...
Ha, finally I can grammar nazi you: it's either "an antenna" for one or "antennae" for multiple. True, but bluetooth antennae tend to be very small relative to the device, as bluetooth operates on a much higher frequency.
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Kllrnohj


/=\ PH34R |\/|3


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 8189
Posted: 19 Apr 2008 12:05:05 pm    Post subject:
KermMartian wrote:
Ha, finally I can grammar nazi you: it's either "an antenna" for one or "antennae" for multiple. True, but bluetooth antennae tend to be very small relative to the device, as bluetooth operates on a much higher frequency.


All the wireless keyboard/mice I have come across operate at 2.4ghz, the same frequency as bluetooth, but without the hassle of bluetooth. I'm curious, though, have you ever tried a BT mouse or keyboard? I've used a BT mouse, and its a pain having to re-connect it every time (an unnecessarily slow procedure) you turn on the computer or put the mouse/keyboard away.

And, of course, BT mice/keyboard require the computer to have a BT receiver (either dongle or built in), and there are still all the driver issues I mentioned before... Wink
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KermMartian


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Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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Posted: 12 May 2008 10:39:09 am    Post subject:
So I got my bluetooth keyboard; it seems quite sufficient for my purposes. It's quite heavy, but I'm assuming it's been weighted purposely and that the weights are removable.
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Mexi1010


Power User


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 492
Location: Home
Posted: 12 May 2008 10:38:01 pm    Post subject:
KermMartian wrote:
Kllrnohj wrote:
bluetooth will still need an antennae, and that is more a problem of that particular keyboard anyway...
Ha, finally I can grammar nazi you: it's either "an antenna" for one or "antennae" for multiple. True, but bluetooth antennae tend to be very small relative to the device, as bluetooth operates on a much higher frequency.


OMGzz! What is the world coming to! Kllr got grammar nazi'd!
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Kllrnohj


/=\ PH34R |\/|3


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 8189
Posted: 12 May 2008 10:53:47 pm    Post subject:
Mexi1010 wrote:
OMGzz! What is the world coming to! Kllr got grammar nazi'd!


Necro much?
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KermMartian


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Posted: 12 May 2008 11:41:22 pm    Post subject:
KermMartian wrote:
So I got my bluetooth keyboard; it seems quite sufficient for my purposes. It's quite heavy, but I'm assuming it's been weighted purposely and that the weights are removable.
Nice, Mexi. Razz

It's a Dell bluetooth keyboard, but removing the PCB access panel revealed a controller board labelled Logitech, so it's just a rebranded Logitech. Very Happy After my finals I'll be working on compacting and reconfiguring the board as well as mapping the keys. I'll start taking some pix and keeping you guys posted; I should also split this thread.
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KermMartian


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Posted: 16 May 2008 04:12:08 am    Post subject:
Update on the bluetooth dataglove project! I have the Dell keyboard (which turns out to just be rebranded Logitech) mapped out, the diagram is below. The conductive array is two sheets, one with 17 contacts to the control PCB, the other with 8 contacts. Holding the keyboard face up, the set of 17 count from 1 on the far right to 17 a bit left of the center in the second group. The set of 8 count from there to the extreme left, A through H. Note: the device is the Dell Bluetooth Wireless Keyboard and Mouse Bundle.


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KermMartian


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Posted: 17 May 2008 12:02:31 pm    Post subject:
*double bump*

Split off this top, mapped my output connector onto the keyboard row/column controller connector. Next step is to work out precisely how I want to key the glove itself so I can work on dataglove-to-real mappings.


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KermMartian


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Posted: 17 May 2008 06:35:27 pm    Post subject:
*triple bump* Managed to input a randomly-generated 5-digit security code and an [enter] using only a piece of wire and the two tables above in under 30 seconds, so the dataglove module is now paired with my tablet. Very Happy Initial tests reveal that my mapping diagram is correct.

For my future reference:


Code:
0: 12A to  4B
1: 11B to  4B
2: 12B to  5B
3:  1B to 10B
4:  1B to  9B
5:  3B to  9B
6:  1B to  8A
7:  3B to  8A
8:  3B to 10B
9:  6A to  4B
Enter: 7A to 7B


Where in the 24-pin pinout above, the top row is A and the leftmost column is 1.
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KermMartian


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Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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Posted: 27 May 2008 09:30:59 pm    Post subject:
Progress of the project: I finished the Bluetooth wrist module before I left and most of the charger, including the vast majority of the casing and most of the circuit. When I get back to my lab at the end of June I'll finish the charging station, and the conductive thread should have arrived, so during July I'll figure out the contact mapping and sew the glove itself together. Testing and configuration should be done by mid-August.

Edit: Conductive thread is sitting in the lab, waiting for me.
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Mexi1010


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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 492
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Posted: 24 Jun 2008 05:12:13 pm    Post subject:
Not to necro, but what happened to this project? I was interested. Mad
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KermMartian


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Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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Posted: 24 Jun 2008 08:22:25 pm    Post subject:
Mexi1010 wrote:
Not to necro, but what happened to this project? I was interested. Mad
If you bothered to read the post directly above yours you'd know exactly what happened to it. Razz

Edit: Contact mapping ready to go:


Code:
#   Row   Col   Dif   Alpha   +Alpha   Num      +Num   Sym      +Sym   | Comments
----------------------------------------------------------------+------------
1   6   H   ++   y      Y      Up      Up                  |
2   7   H   ++   f      F      Down   Down   <            |
3   8   H   ++   g      G      Right   Right   ~            |
4   9   H   ++   w      W      Left   Left   >            |
5   10   H   +   o      O      8      *      ;      F5      |
6   11   H   +   i      I      4      $      ?      F4      |
7   12   H   +   n      N      5      %      +      F3      |
8   13   H   +   h      H      9      (      '      F2      |
9   14   H   0   Space - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > | Always a space   
10   15   H   0   Mode  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > |
11   16   H   0   Shift - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > |
12   17   H   0   Ctrl  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >   |
13   14   G   +   s      S      End      End      =            | Knuckles rub
14   15   G   +   r      R      Home   Home   ]            | "
15   16   G   +   d      D      6      ^      [            | "
16   17   G   +   l      L      7      &      _            | "
17   7   E   +++   z      Z      App      App                  |
18   8   E   +++   q      Q      Win      Win                  |
19   9   E   ++   j      J                              |
20   11   E   ++   x      X         \   F12                  |
21   12   E   ++   v      V      Enter   Enter   |      F11      |
22   13   E   +   u      U      3      #      /      F1      |
23   15   E   ++   k      K      `      ^            F10      |
24   16   E   ++   b      B      PgUp   PgUp   {      F9      |
25   17   E   ++   p      P      PgDn   DgDn   }      F8      |
26   1   H   0   Alt - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >   |
27   3   H   0   e      E      2   @   "                  |
28   12   F   +   m      M      Del      Del      -      F7      |
29   13   F   +   c      C      BkSp   BkSp   :      F6      |
30   16   F   0   t      T      0      )      .            |
31   17   F   0   a      A      1      !      ,            |

Modifiers:
----------
Mode (Alpha, Num, Sym)
Ctrl
Alt
Shift
Space

Letters:   etaoinhsrdlumcwgfypbkvxjqz
Numbers:   1023954876
Symbols:   ,."'+?;!:-)*('`/_[]=>~<#&{}^|\@%

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