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allynfolksjr
Minor Calculator Deity
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 1273
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 Posted: 19 May 2012 11:51:23 pm Post subject: |
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| jwalker wrote: |
Your idea of a free and open border will drain resources. It will also create a huge backlog when trying to grant all of those poeple citizenship, the government would have to hire MORE poeple and buy MORE electronics to get the job done, causeing more spending and thus draining resources.
Your barbecue metaphore also only works if they are actually invited. LEGAL immigration is just fine, but illigal imigration is not. |
Protip: you make a much more compelling argument when you take the time to speel properly.
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DShiznit
Guru-in-Training
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 3683
Location: The 24th Century
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| Posted: 21 May 2012 03:46:41 am Post subject: |
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| jwalker wrote: | | Your barbecue metaphore also only works if they are actually invited. LEGAL immigration is just fine, but illigal imigration is not. |
You're assuming there is a legal alternative for these people. There is not. What we call our immigration policy does not work for an overwhelming majority of people, which is why we have an illegal immigration problem in the first place. As I said before, people do not break the law because they enjoy being criminals, they do it because they have no choice. Give them a functioning legal alternative and they'll use it. Then we can start cracking down on the few left who actually are trying to do us harm.
We have this neat statue in New York you should check out some time. It's been here for over a hundred years now I think. It's this great big green french broad called "The Statue of Liberty". It has this really cool poem on the base you should read when you have a spare moment... |
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parserp
Advanced Newbie
Joined: 14 Nov 2011
Posts: 73
Location: Here.
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| Posted: 21 May 2012 03:19:29 pm Post subject: |
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| DShiznit wrote: |
You're assuming there is a legal alternative for these people. There is not. .... Give them a functioning legal alternative and they'll use it. |
Stay in their own country?
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| allynfolksjr wrote: | | jwalker wrote: |
Your idea of a free and open border will drain resources. It will also create a huge backlog when trying to grant all of those poeple citizenship, the government would have to hire MORE poeple and buy MORE electronics to get the job done, causeing more spending and thus draining resources.
Your barbecue metaphore also only works if they are actually invited. LEGAL immigration is just fine, but illigal imigration is not. |
Protip: you make a much more compelling argument when you take the time to speel properly. |
Logical Fallacy: You are attacking the person, not the argument. 
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qazz42
Vampire Killer
Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Posts: 4177
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| Posted: 21 May 2012 03:52:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | allynfolksjr wrote: | | jwalker wrote: |
Your idea of a free and open border will drain resources. It will also create a huge backlog when trying to grant all of those poeple citizenship, the government would have to hire MORE poeple and buy MORE electronics to get the job done, causeing more spending and thus draining resources.
Your barbecue metaphore also only works if they are actually invited. LEGAL immigration is just fine, but illigal imigration is not. |
Protip: you make a much more compelling argument when you take the time to speel properly. |
Logical Fallacy: You are attacking the person, not the argument. |
Logical Fallacy: Trying to argue with overlord nikky.
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parserp
Advanced Newbie
Joined: 14 Nov 2011
Posts: 73
Location: Here.
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| Posted: 21 May 2012 03:54:05 pm Post subject: |
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| qazz42 wrote: | | Quote: | | allynfolksjr wrote: | | jwalker wrote: |
Your idea of a free and open border will drain resources. It will also create a huge backlog when trying to grant all of those poeple citizenship, the government would have to hire MORE poeple and buy MORE electronics to get the job done, causeing more spending and thus draining resources.
Your barbecue metaphore also only works if they are actually invited. LEGAL immigration is just fine, but illigal imigration is not. |
Protip: you make a much more compelling argument when you take the time to speel properly. |
Logical Fallacy: You are attacking the person, not the argument. |
Logical Fallacy: Trying to argue with overlord nikky. |
0x5 XD I should have known better..
Also quote box
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shmibs
Advanced Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 230
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| Posted: 22 May 2012 11:02:57 am Post subject: |
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"stay in your own country" doesn't seem like a feasible option when you have no food for your family and people are being kidnapped and killed all around you by organised crime syndicates.
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DShiznit
Guru-in-Training
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 3683
Location: The 24th Century
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| Posted: 22 May 2012 05:29:50 pm Post subject: |
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| shmibs wrote: | | "stay in your own country" doesn't seem like a feasible option when you have no food for your family and people are being kidnapped and killed all around you by organised crime syndicates. |
I am too lazy to actually make my own post so instead I quote people and then don't say anything new |
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willrandship
Expert
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 558
Location: Between Venus and Mars
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| Posted: 22 May 2012 06:29:33 pm Post subject: |
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The best solution in my opinion is to make it really, really easy for them to become citizens and start paying taxes. MOAR TAXES!!!!1!one
The citizenship test isn't really that bad, but it should probably exempt anyone under the age of, say, 13, since at that point they would learn it all in school anyhow. It's not exactly difficult, and there are certain things people should know as they enter a country to become a citizen, but they should remove the waiting requirements and such, as well as many of the required costs. They'll pay it back in taxes anyway.
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Hmm...what to put here....
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DShiznit
Guru-in-Training
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 3683
Location: The 24th Century
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| Posted: 24 May 2012 12:35:19 pm Post subject: |
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| willrandship wrote: | The best solution in my opinion is to make it really, really easy for them to become citizens and start paying taxes. MOAR TAXES!!!!1!one
The citizenship test isn't really that bad, but it should probably exempt anyone under the age of, say, 13, since at that point they would learn it all in school anyhow. It's not exactly difficult, and there are certain things people should know as they enter a country to become a citizen, but they should remove the waiting requirements and such, as well as many of the required costs. They'll pay it back in taxes anyway. |
I'm not sure the citizenship test is really a problem, as someone who wants to be a citizen will be more than willing to study for it. It would certainly become a problem though if strictly graded in a Jim-Crow-like fashion, so its definitely worth looking into. Everything else you mention are hurdles I agree need to be removed. The hardest-working person in the world won't get in if our quota is always full.
Keep in mind though, the value of immigration isn't just in tax revenue(admittedly, many poor immigrants won't be paying federal income tax), its in the influx of new markets for businesses to sell things to. Immigration means new people to buy your products, which means more money for the business, and, if demand is high enough, new job opportunities for Americans. Then there's the value of the culture they bring with them, which is impossible to measure monetarily. |
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willrandship
Expert
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 558
Location: Between Venus and Mars
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| Posted: 24 May 2012 12:38:20 pm Post subject: |
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I don't really see culture having much of an effect on anything monetary (except maybe specialized businesses, but we already have Mexican restaurants ), but I do agree on the other points. More business is never a bad thing, and neither is competition,
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