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shkaboinka

Power User

Joined: 30 Jun 2010 Posts: 371 Location: Spokane, WA
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Posted: 30 Oct 2011 03:17:42 pm Post subject: Wat rhymes with cat. (A grammar rant) |
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When I posted that on FaceBook, I was not surprised at how many people interpreted it as a question. "Wat" definitely rhymes with "cat", and it makes me twitch whenever I see it! Even "wut" is hard on the eyes, but at least it comes out correctly!
...But seriously, is it REALLY that much of a shorthand, or is that [H] so hard to find? Maybe if they put the [H] key in a more accessible location, like right in the middle of the keyboard ...
Am I alone in this?
Last edited by shkaboinka on 31 Oct 2011 11:56:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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comicIDIOT

Guru

Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 5107 Location: SFBA, California
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Posted: 30 Oct 2011 03:32:16 pm Post subject: |
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The statement starts with a word that generally initiate a question. Even though there's no question mark, we still interpret it as one. If you wanted answers like "hat," you could write "Did you know 'wat' rhymes with 'cat?' What else rhymes with cat?"
Or, if you wanted yes or no answers, you could leave off that last question. _________________
-Alex |
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benryves

Cemetech Expert

Joined: 12 Aug 2008 Posts: 1359 Location: London, United Kingdom
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KermMartian

Site Admin

Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 55759 Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
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Posted: 30 Oct 2011 05:46:54 pm Post subject: |
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I dislike "wat", "u", "r", "i", "2", "some1", and any number of similar products of our modern, lazy, unfocused society. Come on, at least have the self-respect to not come across as a total imbecile. Just because it's the internet, I still expect you to represent yourself as you would want to be perceived in person. _________________
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Ashbad

... I think redheaded girls are kind of cool

Joined: 01 Dec 2010 Posts: 2418 Location: Stomp Stomp Stomp, The Idiot Convention
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Posted: 30 Oct 2011 07:50:35 pm Post subject: |
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| KermMartian wrote: | I dislike "wat", "u", "r", "i", "2", "some1", and any number of similar products of our modern, lazy, unfocused society. Come on, at least have the self-respect to not come across as a total imbecile. Just because it's the internet, I still expect you to represent yourself as you would want to be perceived in person. |
I kno rite? I mean wat iz teh deal wit thees dum ppl mesing ^ teh viw of teh intrnt. ROFL XDDDDD
But I agree, I can even hardly stand "0x5" as it is now, these days. Rofl, wat, u, r, etc. *really* irk me. Perhaps if you're talking to someone really fast, like if you're telling a friend real quickly before they rush to drive somewhere some general directions to a location, or if you need to quickly tell someone what you want them to order for you at subway, (or if you're playing hedgewars, ) it's acceptable. But at a place like this, it really just looks bad. _________________ -Ashbad |
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qazz42

Vampire Killer

Joined: 07 Apr 2010 Posts: 4177
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Posted: 30 Oct 2011 08:19:24 pm Post subject: |
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This has some censored words, so it shouldn't be a problem. Let this be an example of why you should take spelling on the internet seriously.
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Aes_Sedia5

Minor Calculator Deity

Joined: 01 Sep 2011 Posts: 1002 Location: Where Nightmares end and Dreams begin
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Posted: 30 Oct 2011 09:02:17 pm Post subject: |
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Geez. Tha 's perty ba'. _________________

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shkaboinka

Power User

Joined: 30 Jun 2010 Posts: 371 Location: Spokane, WA
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Posted: 30 Oct 2011 11:31:41 pm Post subject: |
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(Hopefully nobody here thought the title of this post was actually a question, or that I type that way at all).
Thanks for the contributions. I knew people here would understand  |
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benryves

Cemetech Expert

Joined: 12 Aug 2008 Posts: 1359 Location: London, United Kingdom
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Posted: 31 Oct 2011 05:48:41 am Post subject: |
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| shkaboinka wrote: | Thanks for the contributions. I knew people here would understand  |
I'm sure we can agree about the generally poor quality of English but "wat" is most assuredly pronounced the same as "what". |
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shkaboinka

Power User

Joined: 30 Jun 2010 Posts: 371 Location: Spokane, WA
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Posted: 31 Oct 2011 09:27:06 am Post subject: |
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Ok, here's the confusion: People MEAN "what" when they type "wat"; however, it coincidentally is a word with another meaning (thanks, Ben) which rhymes with "watt" (and, perhaps in some accents, also rhymes with "what").
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wat
Common usage of "wat" in casually text-conversation is naive to this definition, however; and were it not a word to begin with, the default pronunciation (I think) would be (rhymes with cat), because that is how one is supposed to read gibberish. For example, "plaid" would sound like "played" were it not already defined as a word decidedly pronounced "plad". |
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DShiznit

Guru-in-Training

Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 3683 Location: The 24th Century
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Posted: 31 Oct 2011 09:29:46 am Post subject: |
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| shkaboinka wrote: | Ok, here's the confusion: People MEAN "what" when they type "wat"; however, it coincidentally is a word with another meaning (thanks, Ben) which rhymes with "watt" (and, perhaps in some accents, also rhymes with "what").
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wat
Common usage of "wat" in casually text-conversation is naive to this definition, however; and were it not a word to begin with, the default pronunciation (I think) would be (rhymes with cat), because that is how one is supposed to read gibberish. For example, "plaid" would sound like "played" were it not already defined as a word decidedly pronounced "plad". |
Just like "bat", "fat", "hat", and "mat". |
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shkaboinka

Power User

Joined: 30 Jun 2010 Posts: 371 Location: Spokane, WA
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Posted: 31 Oct 2011 11:56:06 am Post subject: |
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...thanks, DShiz
| KermMartian wrote: | | I dislike "wat", "u", "r", "i", "2", "some1", and any number of similar products of our modern, lazy, unfocused society. |
Apparently some kids actually think that "u" and "ur" are the actual spellings of the words they come from, because that is how they see them all the time. I admit that I can be a bit of a troll about this... I like to mock such typing by reading my texts as they are typed ("Hrew doing? W(at) do ooh want me to do with er stuff?" or "yə, I agree").
I saw a FaceBook Quiz for "Do you know the difference between there / their / they're?" ... I'm embarrassed that that would even exist. "Hey everyone, I can spell!!".
A few weeks ago, I saw some cutesy sticker with three words on it, but all I remember is that the "I" was not capitalized (and yet printed out all professionally). Watching this creep into actual products is scary...
Anyway, Kerm, you are right; it's purely a matter of laziness. Maybe it's just because I'm a "grammar nazi" (it's true), but I feel that if you don't know something, then look it up and get it down so that you don't feel stupid later. It seems to me that people would rather be ignorant for years on something that would take a minute, and then perhaps a couple stumbles after that. Zero concerted effort though. My example is that I kept seeing "ya", "yea", and "yeah" all used in the same manner, so I resolved to look it up: "Yeah" means "yes"; people THINK "yea" is "yeah", though it coincidentally means "yes" as in "yea or nay" (it rhymes); and "ya" is pronounced "yə", which is slang for "you" (which I don't mind if it really fits the dialog, but it does NOT mean "yeah").
I do the same thing with names, too. There was a foreign girl in my physics class (gasp) with a difficult name. I learned it after asking a few times; but she has friends who have known her for years who will not learn to say her name properly (and it does not use any non-English sounds or tones)! ... That drives me nuts.
...Also, there are fundamental phonetic aspects of English pronunciation that are never taught in American schools. Everyone remembers learning "ch", "sh", and "th" explicitly, but nothing is ever said for "ng" (which has neither an "n" nor a "g" sound in it), "zh" (which is rarely used, but the SOUND is present everywhere as in "fusion" or "measure"), and "th" is presented as a single sound, though it represents a voiced and unvoiced sound (similar to how "s" is frequently pronounced as a "z"). |
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KermMartian

Site Admin

Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 55759 Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
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Posted: 31 Oct 2011 12:12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Ashbad, I'm glad that you now share my dislike of "0x5"; I've even found myself using it a few times on IRC and hated myself for falling into such a lazy, meaningless response. Shkaboinka, I blame text messaging primarily for the breakdown in grammar, as well as social networking sites and indeed the internet in general. I think there's just a general social attitude towards formality and presentation in general that's slowly falling down, from care towards dress and hygiene to manners and respect to grammar. :/ _________________
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shkaboinka

Power User

Joined: 30 Jun 2010 Posts: 371 Location: Spokane, WA
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Posted: 31 Oct 2011 12:29:14 pm Post subject: |
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... Lojban anyone?
(It really is an amazing tool for helping one to think about language in ways you might not otherwise ... I now recognize idiomatic expressions right out, and they sound funny to me now! For example, "going to" and "used to". It's my opinion that such idiomatic phrases are there to fill a gap left in the language, since [for example] English has no future tense). |
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TheStorm

NOU!

Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 2375
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Posted: 31 Oct 2011 01:05:45 pm Post subject: |
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I usually read "wat" as a flat what and say it in my head similarly to how us Americans pronounce watt. I might be the only one who does this but I've seen wat used much more in the flat what sense than as an actual replacement for what. _________________
"Always code as if the person who will maintain your code is a maniac serial killer that knows where you live" -Unknown
"If you've done something right no one will know that you've done anything at all" -Futurama
"Have a nice day, or not, the choice is yours." Tom Steiner
<Michael_V> or create a Borg collective and call it The 83+
<Michael_V> Lower your slide cases and prepare to be silent linked. Memory clears are futile. |
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Qwerty.55
Expert

Joined: 08 Dec 2010 Posts: 613
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Posted: 31 Oct 2011 01:48:00 pm Post subject: |
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As far as "wat" goes, I will admit that I have accidentally used it before or in jest. Sometimes keys just don't click properly, so you ave to give people some level of slack. The missing "h" in the previous sentence is a perfect of a key I pressed that didn't translate to a character. Same goes for common phrases such as "IRL." If a particular grouping of words is almost exclusively used in a context, then shortening it is perfectly valid in my opinion so long as everyone understands the notation. It's basically the same idea behind acronyms. Particular phrase is unwieldy to vocalize, so a shorter, intelligible phrase is used in its stead.
of course, i cant not talkz bouts my h8trd 0f serial txtspk. If you're found guilty of it, Guido the Grammar slug will stick a hot soldering iron in your eye. _________________ ∂²Ψ -(2m(V(x)-E)Ψ
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∂x² ℏ²Ψ |
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Ashbad

... I think redheaded girls are kind of cool

Joined: 01 Dec 2010 Posts: 2418 Location: Stomp Stomp Stomp, The Idiot Convention
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Posted: 31 Oct 2011 02:01:01 pm Post subject: |
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| KermMartian wrote: | | Ashbad, I'm glad that you now share my dislike of "0x5"; I've even found myself using it a few times on IRC and hated myself for falling into such a lazy, meaningless response. |
I blame you for my hatred of the infamous "0x5" and its variants  _________________ -Ashbad |
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shkaboinka

Power User

Joined: 30 Jun 2010 Posts: 371 Location: Spokane, WA
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Posted: 22 Feb 2012 06:47:07 pm Post subject: |
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| TheStorm wrote: | | I've seen wat used much more in the flat what sense than as an actual replacement for what. |
| (that 'flat what' link) wrote: | | "What!" is grammatical, as is "What?" (an interrogative), but "What." is not. However, "What." is how this trope is written, and "What." is how it shall remain. Just because it's not grammatical, doesn't mean it's not expressive. Dialogue is not required to be grammatically correct. |
...Ok, I'll agree that there might be a "flat what", but it DARNED WELL is not spelled with a period! If something is not grammatically correct, then it is essentially "spelled wrong" (except, modify "spelled" to include punctuation etc.). "Flat" or not, a question is followed by a question-mark, or it is NOT A QUESTION (e.g. "Frog." versus "Frog?")! "What." is making a statement about the word "WHAT"; PERIOD!!! (Question: "Which word is used most often to indicate questions?" Answer (statement): "what."). I'm sorry, but it is a flat out contradiction to claim that something is both "the correct way to write it" and also grammatically incorrect; "The correct way to write it" IS what it means to be grammatically correct! ... It's the rule, but it's contrary to the rule!? ... That's crap!!!
(This might be one of those situations where context indicates the tone, etc., but perhaps the CORRECT way is along the lines of "what...?". All in all, "what?" is ambiguous anyway, since it could mean "what did you say?" or it could mean "are you SURE?" or "what do you mean by that?" ... essentially, "what?" is short for "_ what _ ?", and by using it, one is assuming that the connotation is obvious. ... But punctuation is NOT for tone; it is for semantics! ... SEMANTICS, PEOPLE; SEMANTICS!!!!!!!!!!!)
This is similar to how people think that punctuation is a timing indicator, when REALLY it is meant to indicate semantics (e.g. commas separate phrases, which people TEND to pause at for emphasis). "I. Am. A. Retard." is just wrong on all levels, because it makes 4 statements, none of which are even complete thoughts. If ANYTHING, it should be written like "I...am...a...retard".
| comicIDIOT wrote: | | The statement starts with a word that generally initiate a question. Even though there's no question mark, we still interpret it as one. | What rhymes with cat does not rhyme with gut. As demonstrated, a "question-word" does NOT mean that a question is being asked. The main purpose of punctuation is to indicate semantics (e.g. statement, exclamation, question, separation of phrases, etc.). The only reason it is confusing for some people is because they ignore the STRONG semantics that are CLEARLY there! It just irks me that, just because people aren't proficient with their own language, I cannot present a perfecly well-formed statement and assume that people will think it means what it ACTUALLY MEANS! ... ARG!!!
... And that is the essence of why I ever brought this up: to create a demonstration of my frustration (e.g. I mean "X", so I say "X", but people read "Y" when there is a CLEAR grammatical difference between the two!)
Last edited by shkaboinka on 22 Feb 2012 07:20:22 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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seana11

Super-Expert

Joined: 23 May 2011 Posts: 833 Location: Well, the sign says "You are here"...
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shkaboinka

Power User

Joined: 30 Jun 2010 Posts: 371 Location: Spokane, WA
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Posted: 22 Feb 2012 07:16:53 pm Post subject: |
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| seana11 wrote: | | shkaboinka wrote: | | !! ... !!!!!!! | Exclamation Point: n. The most overused punctuation mark in the English language. | Well I suppose I've been collecting these ones and decided to let them all out here.  |
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