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Raylin
Expert
Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 567
Location: Illinois Institute of Technology
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 Posted: 29 Mar 2011 04:17:27 pm Post subject: Free development vs. higher education |
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What say you on the topic? Are you all for going to college and getting that coveted degree or would you rather pursue projects that interest you? Said projects could possibly be added to resumes.
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merthsoft
File Archiver
Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 2735
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elfprince13
OVER NINE THOUSAND!
Joined: 23 May 2005
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Location: A galaxy far far away......
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KermMartian
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55752
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 08:28:07 pm Post subject: |
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Two degrees down, two degrees to go in the foreseeable future, went to the most selective engineering school in the nation, and spent the duration leading Cemetech and writing cool programs. If I can do it, you all can do it too.
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Impiety
Newbie
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 31
Location: Middle of nowhere
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 08:52:40 pm Post subject: |
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Higher education. In today's economy, the only way you can get a job is by getting a degree.
| Quote: | | Two degrees down, two degrees to go in the foreseeable future |
Wait, you can go above and beyond a PH.D? That's freakin sweet...  |
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merthsoft
File Archiver
Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 2735
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 08:59:57 pm Post subject: |
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No, but he can get multiple degrees.
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KermMartian
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55752
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 09:07:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Impiety wrote: | Higher education. In today's economy, the only way you can get a job is by getting a degree.
| Quote: | | Two degrees down, two degrees to go in the foreseeable future |
Wait, you can go above and beyond a PH.D? That's freakin sweet... |
I got a Bachelors of Engineering and a Masters of Engineering in EE in five years. I'll be getting a Masters of Science and Doctorate in (theoretically) roughly five years as well.
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graphmastur
Power User
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 464
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 09:30:24 pm Post subject: |
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| That's insane, I was going to be happy if I got a PhD in Comp Sci. (I love research and cryptography, what can I say) |
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KermMartian
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55752
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 09:33:40 pm Post subject: |
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| graphmastur wrote: | | That's insane, I was going to be happy if I got a PhD in Comp Sci. (I love research and cryptography, what can I say) |
Then you should absolutely go for a higher degree! I think I mentioned this, but one of my fellow engineers and good friends is doing his PhD in CS with a focus on crypto.
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graphmastur
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Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 464
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 09:36:34 pm Post subject: |
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| KermMartian wrote: | | graphmastur wrote: | | That's insane, I was going to be happy if I got a PhD in Comp Sci. (I love research and cryptography, what can I say) |
Then you should absolutely go for a higher degree! I think I mentioned this, but one of my fellow engineers and good friends is doing his PhD in CS with a focus on crypto. |
I believe you did in an IRC Pm once. But yeah, I wasn't even fascinated with cryptology until the RSA factoring thing a year or so ago. (Is that almost two years now???) |
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DShiznit
Guru-in-Training
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 3683
Location: The 24th Century
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 09:47:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I've heard that getting lots of degrees can actually harm you in a down jobs market since you're overqualified and no company wants to pay your salary. Is there any truth to that? |
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merthsoft
File Archiver
Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 2735
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 09:48:47 pm Post subject: |
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It is if you demand a super-high salary.
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graphmastur
Power User
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 464
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 09:53:56 pm Post subject: |
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| DShiznit wrote: | | I've heard that getting lots of degrees can actually harm you in a down jobs market since you're overqualified and no company wants to pay your salary. Is there any truth to that? |
Quite possibly, but if you do your finances well enough, and have a plan to where you don't need to be paid tons of money, you're actually very marketable in pretty much any economy. At least, that's what the guy who I know who has a PhD told me, and what he's doing. |
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Tari
Systems Integrator
Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 2112
Location: Always-winter, Michigan
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 10:19:45 pm Post subject: |
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| KermMartian wrote: | | graphmastur wrote: | | That's insane, I was going to be happy if I got a PhD in Comp Sci. (I love research and cryptography, what can I say) |
Then you should absolutely go for a higher degree! I think I mentioned this, but one of my fellow engineers and good friends is doing his PhD in CS with a focus on crypto. |
I disagree somewhat, and feel more like a graduate degree would largely be a waste of time (and even somewhat for undergraduate degrees as well).
An undergraduate degree is really the basics of whatever you're studying, and much of it is learning how to find the information you're looking for, or discover it yourself if that's not possible. Much of (at least it seems for me) the undergraduate curriculum is just basic skills related to the more specific knowledge-base of your degree. For example, attacking most engineering problems without advanced math (calculus, differential equations..) is extremely difficult, but given that math, you can do most any engineering with only a little more (specific) information.
Hence, I don't see much point in a graduate degree. By that point, you've already mastered (hopefully) the prerequisite skills. With those, you can pretty easily research something yourself. Of course, that's just me- I tend to approach things just with the goal of doing something useful. YMMV, especially if you're interested in picking up knowledge just to know it.
Whatever the case, that's why I don't intend to pursue a degree beyond the BS I'm currently studying.
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allynfolksjr
Minor Calculator Deity
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 10:29:53 pm Post subject: |
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College sucks. Only losers go.
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KermMartian
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55752
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 11:26:16 pm Post subject: |
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| DShiznit wrote: | | I've heard that getting lots of degrees can actually harm you in a down jobs market since you're overqualified and no company wants to pay your salary. Is there any truth to that? |
It depends what you want to do. Google, for instance, enjoys paying highly-qualified people highly-qualified salaries for their experience and skill.
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Impiety
Newbie
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 31
Location: Middle of nowhere
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 11:33:29 pm Post subject: |
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| The Tari wrote: | | KermMartian wrote: | | graphmastur wrote: | | That's insane, I was going to be happy if I got a PhD in Comp Sci. (I love research and cryptography, what can I say) |
Then you should absolutely go for a higher degree! I think I mentioned this, but one of my fellow engineers and good friends is doing his PhD in CS with a focus on crypto. |
I disagree somewhat, and feel more like a graduate degree would largely be a waste of time (and even somewhat for undergraduate degrees as well).
An undergraduate degree is really the basics of whatever you're studying, and much of it is learning how to find the information you're looking for, or discover it yourself if that's not possible. Much of (at least it seems for me) the undergraduate curriculum is just basic skills related to the more specific knowledge-base of your degree. For example, attacking most engineering problems without advanced math (calculus, differential equations..) is extremely difficult, but given that math, you can do most any engineering with only a little more (specific) information.
Hence, I don't see much point in a graduate degree. By that point, you've already mastered (hopefully) the prerequisite skills. With those, you can pretty easily research something yourself. Of course, that's just me- I tend to approach things just with the goal of doing something useful. YMMV, especially if you're interested in picking up knowledge just to know it.
Whatever the case, that's why I don't intend to pursue a degree beyond the BS I'm currently studying. |
Perhaps if you're focusing on engineering/industry, and just want a practical job, then a BS would probably be sufficient. But if you want to be, like, a scientist or doctor, then a Ph.D is a must-have.
But hey, what do I know. I'm just a high school kid 
On a side note, I just noticed that we're both located in the middle of nowhere  |
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Kllrnohj
 PH34R |\/|3
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 8189
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| Posted: 29 Mar 2011 11:50:16 pm Post subject: |
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| KermMartian wrote: | | It depends what you want to do. Google, for instance, enjoys paying highly-qualified people highly-qualified salaries for their experience and skill. |
Google also will hire people with zero higher education - there are senior level developers with only a high school diploma to their name (I would absolutely NOT recommend trying that yourself, btw - always go for at least a Bachelors)
| DShiznit wrote: | | I've heard that getting lots of degrees can actually harm you in a down jobs market since you're overqualified and no company wants to pay your salary. Is there any truth to that? |
Not really. But most companies couldn't care less about your education, either, it very quickly becomes all about real world experience.
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merthsoft
File Archiver
Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 2735
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| Posted: 30 Mar 2011 07:59:03 am Post subject: |
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| Kllrnohj wrote: | | DShiznit wrote: | | I've heard that getting lots of degrees can actually harm you in a down jobs market since you're overqualified and no company wants to pay your salary. Is there any truth to that? |
Not really. But most companies couldn't care less about your education, either, it very quickly becomes all about real world experience. |
Yeah, I've noticed a lot of job postings where under requirements it says something like "Bachelors in Computer Science or equivalent degree, or equivalent experience". That being said, there are some places that absolutely require you to have a college education.
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Shaun |
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KermMartian
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 55752
Location: Earth, Sol, Milky Way
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| Posted: 30 Mar 2011 09:33:02 am Post subject: |
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I'm the first to agree that you don't need a lot of experience to be a good coder and a good hacker (in the positive sense), but there are some fields and concentrations where graduate work reading all the existing papers on a subject, learning a lot about that area, and implementing and publishing novel systems will make you a highly sought-after expert in an area.
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